Tuesday, September 17, 2013

AEther Salon: Courtesans! (Unedited transcript)

((Note: The notecard passed out by Ms. Mimistrobell is appended to the edited transcript.))

[14:00] Bookworm Hienrichs: Welcome, those who have recently joined us! We'll be starting in a few minutes.
[14:00]  ίиđץ (india.canning): hello hello
[14:00] Lynn Mimistrobell: Hello Indy!
[14:00] Lilah (delilah.revnik): Welcome Jarrad!
[14:00] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander) shouts: Welcome, everyone! Move in, move in, you want to be able to hear.
[14:00] Bookworm Hienrichs: We always try to wait for stragglers.
[14:00]  ίиđץ (india.canning): searches crowd for Lynn
[14:00] Bookworm Hienrichs chuckles.
[14:00] Nika Thought-werk (robotnika) waves to the assembly with her fan.
[14:00] Lilah (delilah.revnik) blows a kiss to Indy.
[14:00] Emilly Orr: Well, we are who we are. Time is...flexible, for many.
[14:01] Erehwon (erehwon.yoshikawa): fan
[14:01]  ίиđץ (india.canning): Ms L
[14:01] Erehwon (erehwon.yoshikawa): yes, that's what's missing from this
[14:01] AlasAndAlack Resident steps forward, waiting for the chairs to appear.
[14:01] Emilly Orr: Ah, yes, about that...
[14:01] Pamela Faerye follows her friend and waits with her
[14:01] Bookworm Hienrichs: ((Oosh! That was a bad freezeup.))
[14:01] Nika Thought-werk (robotnika): Miss Ereh, if I might say so ... you already have many fans.
[14:01] Emilly Orr: Someone should send them a chair or so.
[14:02] Lynn Mimistrobell: Oh dear, we lost Ereh.
[14:02] Nika Thought-werk (robotnika) motions around the crowd.
[14:02] Nika Thought-werk (robotnika): Oh, bother.
[14:02] AlasAndAlack: ((Unless we are supposed to stand - I thought I just couldn't see them yet :)))
[14:02] Solace Fairlady: Hoi Master Jimmy!
[14:02] Nika Thought-werk (robotnika): Well met, Mister Jimmy.
[14:02] Lynn Mimistrobell: Hello Jarrad!! Thanks for coming!
[14:02] Jimmy Branagh: Hoy Miss Solace!
[14:02] Jimmy Branagh: Hoy Awl!
[14:02] Lilah (delilah.revnik) gives Indy a warm hug.
[14:02] Lilah (delilah.revnik): Herr Baron, would you mind sending a chair to Jarrad so he can have a seat as well?
[14:03] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander): Certainly.
[14:03] Stereo Nacht: Oops! Sorry for the crushed toes... Still rezzing...
[14:03] Solace Fairlady: hello M Somersfiled
[14:03] Nika Thought-werk (robotnika): Frau Lowey, might I stand next to thee?
[14:03] Solace Fairlady: and Captain Stereo!
[14:04] Stereo Nacht: Good day all! If you will excuse me, I have to free the typist for a minute or two...
[14:04] Solace Fairlady: Hello M Rouse
[14:04] Beatrixerouse Resident: Hi hi!
[14:04] Momoe (momoe.mollari): Mythril are you swimming with the fishes?
[14:04] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander): Does everyone have a chair?
[14:04] JJ Drinkwater: Gentlebings, is this is chat or in voice?
[14:04] Beatrixe Rouse (beatrixerouse): No
[14:05] Bookworm Hienrichs grins at Myrtil.
[14:05] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander): Cushions for those who prefer a lower seat.
[14:05] Bookworm Hienrichs: This will be in Chat.
[14:05] JJ Drinkwater is delighted to "hear" it
[14:05] Solace Fairlady: hello Sir JJ!
[14:05] Emilly Orr: And then preserved later on...I forget the journal's name.
[14:05] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander) grins
[14:05] Jimmy Branagh sits waiting to learn about Courtesans
[14:05] JJ Drinkwater: Lady Solace, good day to you!
[14:05] Delilah gives Jarrad a big hug.
[14:05] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander): aethersalon.blogspot.com
[14:05] Darlingmonster Ember: is lovely so many curious minds today... great turnout
[14:05] Emilly Orr: That's it!
[14:06] Myrtil Igaly: hey Zaida!
[14:06] Emilly Orr: Greetings, Mr. Drinkwater!
[14:06] zaida Gearbox: hey hey!
[14:06] Solace Fairlady: hello Zaida!
[14:06] Jimmy Branagh waves to Zaida
[14:06] Nika Thought-werk (robotnika): Hello, Miss Zaida!
[14:07] Bookworm Hienrichs: Well, then! I think it's time we got started. *smile*
[14:07] Bookworm Hienrichs: Welcome to another season of the Aether Salon! Believe it or not, this is the 47th edition of the Salon.
[14:07] JJ Drinkwater: Greetings, Miss Orr, Miss Zaida....and all you other lovely, well-dressed, nice-smelling people I can't see yet
[14:07] Bookworm Hienrichs: Who knew, when Viv Trafalgar, Serafina Puchkina, and Jedburgh Dagger started this nearly five years ago, that we'd still be meeting for such stimulating discussions?
[14:07] Myrtil Igaly: what about the badly-dressed and smelly ones...?
[14:08] Darlingmonster Ember: we are making a list, Myrtil
[14:08] Lilah (delilah.revnik) applauds for the salons!
[14:08]  ίиđץ (india.canning): hi there Ms E!
[14:08] Darlingmonster Ember applauds
[14:08] Bookworm Hienrichs: But thankfully, we're still going strong, and looking forward to another season. We hope you are, too!
[14:08] Erehwon (erehwon.yoshikawa): sorry, bad crash :)
[14:08] Darlingmonster Ember applauds
[14:08] Daryll Bellecoeur: (Thank God SL has no smell function....yet.)
[14:08] Nika Thought-werk (robotnika) claps.
[14:08]  ίиđץ (india.canning): aslong as it didn't leave a mark
[14:08] Momoe (momoe.mollari): Yayyy
[14:08] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander) applauds
[14:08] Bookworm Hienrichs: Before we proceed, some housekeeping reminders:
[14:08] Erehwon (erehwon.yoshikawa): Firestorm and Macs are not getting along.
[14:08] JJ Drinkwater: Ah, well, if there are any of those then I'm glad to see them too
[14:08] Bookworm Hienrichs: 1) To ensure hearability, stand or sit on the patterned carpet.
[14:08] Myrtil Igaly: Yay!!
[14:09] Bookworm Hienrichs: 2) If you do not have a wearable chair and wish one, please contact myself or the Baron.
[14:09] Bookworm Hienrichs: 3) Please remove all lag-feeding whatevers you might be wearing.
[14:09] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander) grins
[14:09] Fan white by Marlene: Could not find animation 'B&F Hochzeit
[14:09] Bookworm Hienrichs: 4) A tip jar is out for our speaker. Do please show your appreciation!
[14:09] JJ Drinkwater: What is the name of the wearable chair?
[14:09] Myrtil Igaly: 'Aether Salon (wear me)
[14:09] Bookworm Hienrichs: 'Consulate event chair' or what Myrtil said.
[14:09] Bookworm Hienrichs grins.
[14:10] Bookworm Hienrichs: 5) Any tips to help support the establishment will also be welcome - just click on one of the support signs!
[14:10] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander): I thought 'Vlad'.
[14:10] zaida Gearbox: can i have a chair?
[14:10] Bookworm Hienrichs: 6) If you're not a member of the AEther Salon group, there are signs that will let you sign up. You'll be most heartily welcome!
[14:10] Bookworm Hienrichs: 7) Edited and unedited transcripts of these proceedings will be posted at aethersalon.blogspot.com.
[14:10] Bookworm Hienrichs: And now, to introduce our speaker:
[14:10] Bookworm Hienrichs: Miss Lynn Mimistrobell has been a resident and visitor of the various Steamlands for two or three years now. She currently lives in Marakesh Mondrago.
[14:11] Bookworm Hienrichs: She is also a courtesan in the Isle of Sakura, which ties in with her interest in the historical matters of such.
[14:11] Stereo Nacht: (Back, finally.)
[14:11] Bookworm Hienrichs: (She is also no mean student of classical music, hosting several of her own salons on that subject.)
[14:11] Bookworm Hienrichs: Please join me in welcoming Miss Lynn Mimistrobell!
[14:11] Lynn Mimistrobell smiles at Bookworm.
[14:11] Jimmy Branagh applauds
[14:11] Darlingmonster Ember applauds
[14:11] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander) applauds
[14:11] Myrtil Igaly: Welcome Miss!
[14:11] Bookworm Hienrichs smiles and applauds.
[14:11] Stereo Nacht:  `*.¸.*´ APPLAUSE `*.¸.*´APPLAUSE `*.¸.*´
[14:11] Darlingmonster Ember applauds
[14:11] baylinda: BRAVO!!!!!!
[14:11] baylinda: .;:+*'`'* APPPPPPPLLLLAAAUUUSSSSEEEEEEE *'`'*+:;.
[14:11] baylinda: ♫~~♫~~APPLAUSE~~♫~~♫
[14:11] Lynn Mimistrobell steps up slowly with a graceful smile to everyone.
[14:11] Annechen Löwey (annechen.lowey):  `*.¸.*´ APPLAUSE `*.¸.*´APPLAUSE `*.¸.*´
[14:11] Emilly Orr applauds.
[14:11] Nika Thought-werk (robotnika) claps.
[14:11] Solace Fairlady applauds
[14:11] Lilah (delilah.revnik) applauds loudly!
[14:11] Darlingmonster Ember applauds
[14:12] AlasAndAlack applauds politely.
[14:12] Lynn Mimistrobell: Hello, everyone, and thank you for inviting me here today.
[14:12] Daryll Bellecoeur applauds quietly
[14:12] Lynn Mimistrobell: I hope you do not mind my gown, I have attempted to come as a courtesan from one of the heydays of the Courtesan, Renaissance Venice.
[14:12] Lynn Mimistrobell: Erehwon and Lilah have dresses possibly similar to those of a Victorian courtesan, which really would not always be very different than normal upper class,.... unless they decided to be scandalous. So they are not much different than many others here.
[14:13] Lynn Mimistrobell smiles and nods towards Lilah and Erehwon.
[14:13] Lilah (delilah.revnik) smiles and bobs a curtsy before sitting down again.
[14:13] Erehwon (erehwon.yoshikawa) nods and smiles.
[14:13] JJ Drinkwater ogles discreetly
[14:13] AlasAndAlack looks shocked to discover she dresses like a courtesan!
[14:13] Lynn Mimistrobell: Before we begin, I’d like to share a poem, written by one of the foremost courtesans of her day.
[14:14] Lynn Mimistrobell: We danced our youth in a dreamed of city,
Venice, paradise, proud and pretty,
We lived for love and lust and beauty,
Pleasure then our only duty.
[14:14] Lynn Mimistrobell: Floating them twixt heaven and Earth
And drank on plenties blessed mirth
We thought ourselves eternal then,
Our glory sealed by God’s own pen.
[14:14] Lynn Mimistrobell: But paradise, we found is always frail,
Against man’s fear will always fail.
― Veronica Franco
[14:14] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander) applauds
[14:15] Darlingmonster Ember: claps
[14:15]  ίиđץ (india.canning) applauds
[14:15] Nika Thought-werk (robotnika) claps happily.
[14:15] Daryll Bellecoeur applauds
[14:15] Jimmy Branagh applauds
[14:15] Lynn Mimistrobell: Thats Veronice Franco, whom I have highlighted above me.
[14:15] Lynn Mimistrobell: Name them what you will, hetaira, cortigiana, ji, gisaeng, oiran, tawa’if or courtesan. They were seductive, scandalous, sumptuous and glamorous.
[14:16] Lynn Mimistrobell: They inspired thousands of artists through the ages, in painting, sculpture, poetry, music, and theater, and were often artists or performers in their own right.
[14:16] Lynn Mimistrobell: But who were they?
[14:16] Lynn Mimistrobell: If you asked multiple people what a courtesan is, you
would get multiple answers.
[14:17] Lynn Mimistrobell: So lets open it up here a moment, and I will ask you. What is your definition of a courtesan?
[14:17] Lynn Mimistrobell gazes out at the crowd.
[14:17] Nika Thought-werk (robotnika) raises her hand.
[14:17] Lynn Mimistrobell: Nika?
[14:17] Daryll Bellecoeur raises her hand
[14:17] Nika Thought-werk (robotnika): They were words I can't say?
[14:17] Darlingmonster Ember: raises hand
[14:18] Lynn Mimistrobell laughs.
[14:18] Lynn Mimistrobell: Daryll?
[14:18] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander) muffles a laugh
[14:18] Nika Thought-werk (robotnika) blinks and shrugs.
[14:18] JJ Drinkwater: An artist of the sexual....a well paid one?
[14:18] Lynn Mimistrobell winks at Nika.
[14:18]  ίиđץ (india.canning): I like the notion of artist
[14:18] Jimmy Branagh brings out his notebook
[14:18] Lynn Mimistrobell: Oh, interesting, I have never heard that... I like that juxtaposition.
[14:18] Stereo Nacht raises her hand
[14:19] Daryll Bellecoeur: They were ladies skilled in many arts, often intelligent...also skilled at the sensual and sexual arts. *Blush*
[14:19] HolyMary Loudwater agrees more with that last definition
[14:19] JJ Drinkwater: I have no historical or literary warrant for that, it's merely my impression.
[14:19] Jimmy Branagh raises his hand
[14:19] Lynn Mimistrobell: Very good! Lets see what scholarship has to say. At its most basic, Merriam-Webster says this: a courtesan is a prostitute with a courtly, wealthy, or upper-class clientele.
[14:19] Stereo Nacht: A woman of many talents who is frown upon because servicing the baser instincts of the higher ups?
[14:19] Lynn Mimistrobell gasps and holds her hand to her mouth! "I said the "p" word!
[14:19] Stereo Nacht: (Whoops! Too late...)
[14:20] Lilah (delilah.revnik) tsks Lynn...
[14:20] Lynn Mimistrobell: For many people today that is as far as it goes; and some will simply stop after the word prostitute and forgo the very important second half of the definition.
[14:20] Daryll Bellecoeur grins
[14:20]  ίиđץ (india.canning) faints
[14:20] Jimmy Branagh: Oy wos gonna ask are they loike geishas. We 'ad a class on geisha once ...
[14:20] Daryll Bellecoeur: (Money was involved!)
[14:20]  ίиđץ (india.canning) has the vapours
[14:20] Lynn Mimistrobell: We can talk about that in a bit, possibly, Jimmy...
[14:21] Lynn Mimistrobell: And truly, isn’t this definition also that of a high-class escort? In fact, many may consider those two terms – high-class escort and courtesan – interchangeable.
[14:21] Jimmy Branagh nods and scribbles
[14:21] Darlingmonster Ember: .....uppity woman making some history... with style
[14:21] Lynn Mimistrobell: However, I believe that this definition misses the nuances and focus of what a courtesan truly is. So before going any further, lets discuss the main differences as I see them between an escort and a courtesan.
[14:21] Daryll Bellecoeur: (Geisha only attended the Oiran or Tayuu...they were forbidden to sell their bodies.)
[14:21] Aoife Fotherington: Niece, you must have a good reason to show up like that.
[14:21] Erehwon (erehwon.yoshikawa) passes Indy the flask of gin.
[14:21] Lynn Mimistrobell nods at Daryll. "Correct"
[14:21] Lynn Mimistrobell: An escort generally focuses on the sexual exchange between her and her client. The main focus, no matter what else is involved, is physical intimacy.
[14:22] Erehwon (erehwon.yoshikawa) almost drops the gin.
[14:22] Lynn Mimistrobell: Of course, there may be other factors involved, and her personality is important should she want to have repeat customers.
[14:22] Solace Fairlady: "mistress" would be better than escort?
[14:22] Lynn Mimistrobell: However, while sometimes the relationship may eventually evolve outside the bedroom, for the most part escorting is primarily about sex.
[14:22] Lynn Mimistrobell nods at Solace. "Correct, though a Mistress implies a monogamous relationship."
[14:23] Lynn Mimistrobell: Now, there is no denying that a courtesan will also engage in physical intimacy with her patron, but the relationship will be long-term, though not necessarily monogamous.
[14:23] Solace Fairlady: depends:)
[14:23] Lynn Mimistrobell winks at Solace.
[14:23] Lynn Mimistrobell: A courtesan will be extremely well-educated and will engage in all manner of conversation with her patrons, and offer her opinions on any subject.
[14:23] Lynn Mimistrobell: She is witty, sharp, imaginative, charming, present in the moment, and usually trained in one or more of the fine arts, often acting, dancing or music.
[14:23] Jarrad Somersfield (jarrad.whitfield): The one on Firefly preferred "Companion"
[14:24] Lynn Mimistrobell nods at Jarrad.
[14:24] Daryll Bellecoeur nods
[14:24] Emilly Orr: Companions, in the Firefly definition, are most definitely courtesans.
[14:24] Lynn Mimistrobell: Yes, when I am asked about that that, that is what I usually say, Miss Orr, because most do not understand the concept anymore.
[14:24] Jarrad Somersfield (jarrad.whitfield): Most edefinatley highclass clientel in Firefly.
[14:25] Lynn Mimistrobell: And please notice the words I used, clients vs. patrons; an escort will have clients who will pay her, while a true courtesan will have patrons who support her. There is a distinct difference.
[14:25] zaida Gearbox: what's de difference?
[14:25] Solace Fairlady: donations as opposed to an agreed tariff?
[14:25] Lynn Mimistrobell: Generally a client pays for a service.
[14:25] Stereo Nacht: Which, actually, leads to Ms. Ember (?) definition: she is an artist.
[14:26] Emilly Orr: And patrons support the art.
[14:26] Lynn Mimistrobell: A patron supports a mistress, a courtesan, an artist....
[14:26] Lynn Mimistrobell: Yes.
[14:26] Lynn Mimistrobell: Therefore, I believe that the longer definition of a courtesan from the knowledgerush.com encyclopedia is a bit better. A courtesan is a person paid and/or supported for the giving of social companionship and intimate liaisons to one or more partners. The word is generally reserved for those who enjoyed the most social status for such services.
[14:26] Stereo Nacht: That would mean that he pays her even when they are not together. Pay for the housing, the clothing, the domesticity...
[14:26] Lynn Mimistrobell: But even this does not really explain the full meaning, to me.
[14:26] Darlingmonster Ember: ah, status
[14:27] Lynn Mimistrobell: Stereo, that is actually correct.
[14:27] Maria Lourdes Rodrigues Texeira (aoife.fotherington): Non-trivial amounts of jewelry?
[14:27] Stereo Nacht: (And I don't want to replace you, of course - just thinking aloud. Sorr!)
[14:27] Lynn Mimistrobell: I think that what I prefer is the way that the Courtesan’s Arts Cross Cultural Project puts it.
[14:27] Stereo Nacht: *sorry*
[14:27] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander) chuckles quietly
[14:27] Lynn Mimistrobell: nods at Maria, "Very", and grins.
[14:28] Lynn Mimistrobell: Courtesanship is the social phenomena whereby women engage in relatively exclusive exchanges of artistic graces, elevated conversation, and sexual favors with male patrons.
[14:28] Maria Lourdes Rodrigues Texeira (aoife.fotherington): I've seen some of the pictures of what La Belle Otero managed to get.
[14:28] Lynn Mimistrobell: Yes, and some of the stories!
[14:28] Lynn Mimistrobell nods at Maria.
[14:29] Lynn Mimistrobell: Any thoughts so far?
[14:29] Myrtil Igaly: Can there be male courtesans?
[14:29] Stereo Nacht: Well, apart from the social frown, they must be some very powerful ladies!
[14:29] Stereo Nacht: Ah, I was about to ask the same, Miss Igaly! :-)
[14:29] Myrtil Igaly grins
[14:30] JJ Drinkwater: They would be called gigolos...or boy-toys, I think
[14:30]  ίиđץ (india.canning): much is about the need the courtesan fills for the elite
[14:30] Stereo Nacht: (Not that I have any means of supporting one... X-D )
[14:30] Solace Fairlady: a gigolo is simply an escort
[14:30] Lynn Mimistrobell: Well.... thats a good question. Not everyone may agree with me, but.. in MY opinion only, it is rare... because of the societal conditions ripe for a courtesan.
[14:30] Maria Lourdes Rodrigues Texeira (aoife.fotherington): I'm wondering about what you would consider younger men who attach themselves to older often titled women.
[14:30] Lynn Mimistrobell: Which is a wonderful segue...
[14:30] Lilah (delilah.revnik) nods in agreement with Lynn.
[14:30] Maria Lourdes Rodrigues Texeira (aoife.fotherington): In a coarser era, "boy toys:"
[14:30] Lynn Mimistrobell: Each culture, society and time has their own distinct variations of the courtesan, with certain things more emphasized than others, but the above is a fairly good generic definition.
[14:31] Lynn Mimistrobell: However, you can see some of these variations are neatly shown by the words used in various cultures to denote the courtesan. There is the original French courtisane, ‘mistress of royalty’; Italian cortigiana, a female courtier; the Greek hetaera, a companion or friend; and the Chinese ji, the singing girl.
[14:31] Lynn Mimistrobell: Overall we see the Courtesan - the intelligent companion, the artist, the lover of royalty or those of high social class.
[14:32] Jarrad Somersfield (jarrad.whitfield): yes/11
[14:32] 薔薇 Rose (holymary.loudwater): and Oiran that means something like "elder sister"
[14:32] Jarrad Somersfield (jarrad.whitfield): 'yes!!!
[14:32] Lynn Mimistrobell: But one thing to remember is that even with this in mind, historically the definition of a courtesan has always been blurry, because of the tangled web of double standards in regards to sex and money, gender and class.
[14:32] Lynn Mimistrobell: For example, neither Agnes Sorel (mistress of Charles VII) nor Alice Keppel (mistress to the Prince of Wales) are commonly considered courtesans even though their patrons supported them financially. Neither of them took money from other patrons so that could be why –
[14:33] Lynn Mimistrobell: - except that these same facts applied to Madame de Pompadour (mistress of Louis XV) who is considered a prime example of a courtesan. Could it be because she came from a lower social class than the others?
[14:33] Lynn Mimistrobell: Who knows? The point is that there really is no hard and fast definition; perhaps it is simply a concept.
[14:33] Solace Fairlady: she was French and the word as you say is French?
[14:33] Solace Fairlady: so the two go together
[14:33] Lynn Mimistrobell: I really dont know.
[14:34] Lynn Mimistrobell: Though you will see the first two sometimes listed as courtesans.. its all very fluid.
[14:34] 薔薇 Rose (holymary.loudwater) raises her hand
[14:34] Lynn Mimistrobell: Courtesans are not present in every culture, but they have appeared in many specific times and cultures from pre-colonial India, ancient Greece, imperial China, Renaissance Italy, Edo Japan and Victorian France and England.
[14:34] Jedburgh Dagger (jedburgh30.dagger): I wager more the nature of the Court
[14:34]  ίиđץ (india.canning): It also depends on the level of visibility
[14:34] Lynn Mimistrobell: Yes, Rose?
[14:34]  ίиđץ (india.canning): kept behind doors or out in the open
[14:35] 薔薇 Rose (holymary.loudwater): what's the difference betweeb a courtesan and what we call 'grisettes', young women just seeking for a male protector ?
[14:35] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander): Exclusivity, perhaps?
[14:35] Daryll Bellecoeur raises her hand
[14:35] Lynn Mimistrobell: The grisette took any man, they were closer to common prostututes.
[14:35] Darlingmonster Ember: no status
[14:35] Solace Fairlady: no artistic grace or talent
[14:36] Lynn Mimistrobell: If I remember correctly, a griseete could become a lorette, of higher status, and then a courtesan...
[14:36] Darlingmonster Ember: if society can ignore you...you probably are not a courtesan
[14:36] Maria Lourdes Rodrigues Texeira (aoife.fotherington): raises hand
[14:36] Lynn Mimistrobell: Such as Marie duPlessis, highlighted above... and in the next picture as well.
[14:36]  ίиđץ (india.canning): courtesans were also confidantes, and often had teh ear of their patrons
[14:37] Lynn Mimistrobell: Yes.
[14:37] Lynn Mimistrobell: As mentioned earlier, there are large differences in theses societies and the courtesan’s role in them, but there are also a number of societal and economic similarities in those where ‘courtesanship’ has flourished.
[14:37]  ίиđץ (india.canning): so there were expectations of them, how to keep that confidence
[14:37] Lynn Mimistrobell: These similarities include:
[14:37] Lynn Mimistrobell: 1. A highly stratified society marked by social oppression but undergoing modernization;
[14:37] Lynn Mimistrobell: 2. New forms of mercantilism;
[14:38] Lynn Mimistrobell: 3. New, if limited, forms of social mobility;
[14:38] Lynn Mimistrobell: 4. An increased emphasis on culture and art; and
[14:38] Lynn Mimistrobell: 5. Marriage conventions which separate love and sexual passion from the institution of matrimony. Generally wives (and women in general) will not be well-educated, and will be expected to be chaste, modest and demur. Marriage was for financial gain or for lineage purposes. A very blunt term I have heard used to describe a courtesan is that she was ‘reproductively irrelevant.’
[14:38] Darlingmonster Ember: mmmm
[14:39] Lynn Mimistrobell: In this environment, the courtesan is always ‘kept’ at the social level where leisure and pleasure are cultivated and, although often of a lower social class than her patrons, is often indistinguishable from those women born into higher classes.
[14:39] Emilly Orr: Interesting phrase.
[14:39] Lynn Mimistrobell nods at Miss Orr.
[14:39] Lynn Mimistrobell: In fact, she often will ‘assume upper class styles and privileges in a performance that crosses and blurs class lines.’
[14:39] Maria Lourdes Rodrigues Texeira (aoife.fotherington): So, Heian-era Japan seems to fail the first criterion when compared to Edo-era Japan.
[14:39] JJ Drinkwater: Are there notable illegitimate people (probably men?) who were the offspring of courtesans & highly placed fathers?
[14:39] Daryll Bellecoeur nods
[14:40] Lynn Mimistrobell: Its a very fluid list, Maria, and these are generalities...
[14:40]  ίиđץ (india.canning): many of Charles I's children, lol
[14:40] Lynn Mimistrobell: And I am not sure, Mr. Drinkwater...
[14:40] Lynn Mimistrobell: I am concentrating primarily in this discussion on the western culture, particularly in two of the three most notorious eras and places for courtesans, Renaissance Venice and Victorian Paris (the third probably being Ancient Greece).
[14:40] Solace Fairlady: De Saxe
[14:40] Solace Fairlady: he was one
[14:40] Maria Lourdes Rodrigues Texeira (aoife.fotherington): Look at the children of William IV of England and Dorothea Jordan.
[14:41] Lynn Mimistrobell smiles at Solace.
[14:41]  ίиđץ (india.canning): yes, exactly
[14:41] Lynn Mimistrobell: Going on, a western courtesan could come from anywhere. The most common throughout history:
[14:41] Max Islay looks around at all the potential pockets to pick
[14:41] Lynn Mimistrobell: • A relatively highborn woman who had fallen due to some scandal or other; a 'ruined' woman;
[14:42] Lynn Mimistrobell: • A woman from a well-to-do background, possibly even married—but to husbands lower on the social ladder than their patrons. In these cases, their relationships with those of high social status had the potential to improve their spouses' status—and so, more often than not, the husband was aware of his wife's profession and dealings;
[14:42] Lynn Mimistrobell: • A woman from lower classes who ‘worked her way up’ from common prostitute who was noticed by a more well to do client, and worked hard to educate and better herself (common in both the Renaissance and Victorian eras); and
[14:42] Lynn Mimistrobell: • A daughter of a courtesan who was trained by her mother, who got her started and procured her first patrons (common in the Renaissance).
[14:43] Lynn Mimistrobell: As mentioned before, Marie duPlessis is an example of the third, and our dear Veronica Franco is an example of the last.
[14:43] Solace Fairlady: so was the professor really grooming Eliza as a courtesan?
[14:43] Emilly Orr: That's one rumor.
[14:43]  ίиđץ (india.canning): cor! I'm a good gel I am
[14:43] Lynn Mimistrobell grins at Solace, "Very possible..."
[14:44] Jedburgh Dagger (jedburgh30.dagger): Just you wait Henry Higgins
[14:44] Lilah (delilah.revnik) giggles at Indy.
[14:44] Lynn Mimistrobell: Earlier I had mentioned the blurring of class lines typical of a courtesan.
[14:44] Lynn Mimistrobell: freedoms that were extremely rare for other women at the time. She could be both financially comfortable (when business was good) and financially independent, with control of her own resources.
[14:44] Darlingmonster Ember: "poor Prof Higgins"
[14:44] Lynn Mimistrobell: oop.. let me repeat that.
[14:44] Lynn Mimistrobell: Courtesans in these eras also were known for blurring gender lines, to a point. She had freedoms that were extremely rare for other women at the time. She could be both financially comfortable (when business was good) and financially independent, with control of her own resources.
[14:44] Maria Lourdes Rodrigues Texeira (aoife.fotherington): Eliza Doolittle was more of a linguistic and sociological experiment.
[14:45] Jimmy Branagh whispers "Th' rine in Spine fawls minely on th' pline."
[14:45] Lynn Mimistrobell: She could, within reason, choose her own patrons and had in some sense to be wooed and courted. She was very well-educated compared even to upper-class women, and often held a simultaneous careers as a performer or artist.
[14:45] Lynn Mimistrobell: Also, there are well established traditions in various cultures of the courtesans also blurring gender lines in clothing and sometimes implicit or explicit androgyny - short hair, male clothing, etc. even in Renaissance Italy.
[14:45] Darlingmonster Ember: nods
[14:46] Lynn Mimistrobell: Additionally, the courtesan will often be found at the marginal edges of power, where her close relationship with those in power can sometimes slide in and out of agency, control and influence.
[14:46] Lynn Mimistrobell: She will take wealth and status from her patron, but at the same time she will enhance her patron’s status.
[14:47] JJ Drinkwater: As with some society hostesses!
[14:47] Emilly Orr nods.
[14:47] Lynn Mimistrobell: But lets not paint too rosy a picture.
[14:47]  ίиđץ (india.canning): The marguins of power or within it I think is important. The courtesan was really about fulfilling a need, a need beyond the sexual. A patron could buy sex form anyone, but they chose their courtesans to meet other needs, often ones their wives could never meet. I think the mental companionship was an important part of this.
[14:48] Solace Fairlady: Wives were bred and trained to be wives
[14:48] Solace Fairlady: the courtesan being better eductaed I think was key
[14:48] Lynn Mimistrobell: Exactly, Indy, that is one reason I believe a male courtesan is....not really the same.
[14:48]  ίиđץ (india.canning): or were about alliances of houses and deals
[14:48] Lynn Mimistrobell: You dont have the gender inequalities.
[14:48]  ίиđץ (india.canning): yes
[14:48] Lynn Mimistrobell: The rigid class and gender hierarchies that allow her to flourish because she successfully challenges them, also ultimately denies her full access to privilege. She was always balanced on the knife edge of disaster, financially and personally. The blurring or breaching of gender roles often caused a backlash from both men and women, resulting in vilification and sometimes violence.
[14:49] Lynn Mimistrobell: Therefore, while the courtesan had freedoms and resources not available to other women of her time, she was also, as a means of survival, dependent on upper-class "protectors" to provide her with shelter and support.
[14:49] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander): Conditional privilege.
[14:49] Lynn Mimistrobell nods at the Baron.
[14:49] Daryll Bellecoeur: They had to be quite strong characters.
[14:49] Lynn Mimistrobell: Exactly!!
[14:50] Lynn Mimistrobell: These patrons could turn on her in an instant and she would have little to no other true protection or recourse. She was required to provide charming companionship for extended periods, no matter what her own feelings might be at the time. She was also, because of the sexual aspects of her profession, subject to disrespect and religious disapproval.
[14:50]  ίиđץ (india.canning): shrewd
[14:50] Lynn Mimistrobell: She was sometimes limited in her apparel by various sumptuary laws and could be restricted in where she could appear at social functions. Periods of overt religious piety in a city would often lead to persecutions of the courtesans, up to and including accusations of witchcraft.
[14:50] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander): Pardon, Fraulein, but we have about 10 minutes left.
[14:50] Lynn Mimistrobell: No problem.
[14:50] JJ Drinkwater muses aloud "What about male.....sexual-providers-and-companions....for other men?"
[14:51] Lilah (delilah.revnik) grins at Mr. Drinkwater, "That's a whole other discussion right there!"
[14:51] Lynn Mimistrobell: I will skip some of the more specific references I had for both Paris and Venice, but one last connection..
[14:51] Lynn Mimistrobell: In each city there were clear and strong connections between artists and courtesans, where both groups existed in a half-world between the respected part of society and the working class; from the Venetian salons to the Parisian demi-monde.
[14:51] JJ Drinkwater: Quite so. Just ignore my nattering, MIss Mimistrobel
[14:52] Lynn Mimistrobell: Also in each city, the courtesans were opulent in their jewelry, and often were the leaders in fashion.
[14:52] Lynn Mimistrobell winks at Mr. Drinkwater.
[14:52] Lynn Mimistrobell: They were meant to be seen and talked about and, at least in the Victorian era, drummed up controversy and business by making conspicuous appearances at the opera and other society functions, and generally expected (and got) fabulous sums in cash and gifts in return for their attentions.
[14:52] JJ Drinkwater: The "floating world" of the ukiyo-oe artists?
[14:52] Solace Fairlady: Portrait artists were kept in business by courtesans and their patrons
[14:52] Lynn Mimistrobell nods.
[14:53] Erehwon (erehwon.yoshikawa): A 19th Century Kickstarter?
[14:53] Maria Lourdes Rodrigues Texeira (aoife.fotherington): What about the Pretty Horse-breakers in England?
[14:53] Lynn Mimistrobell: Before we finish, I think it is easy to see why true courtesans are fairly non-existent in today’s western societies. The relatively ‘egalitarian’ society and less restrictive gender roles today do not promote the role of such a woman, and she has been essentially replaced by the fashionable, high-class escort.
[14:53] Solace Fairlady: crowdfunding:)
[14:53] Lilah (delilah.revnik) giggles at Ereh.
[14:53] Lynn Mimistrobell: You can also see the compromises that need to be made in Second Life for those attempting to live the life as a SL courtesan, though there are some that do try to offer more than the typical second life escort. And I do believe the role play applications can be much fun.
[14:54] JJ Drinkwater: Although, Boswell, my hapless human, once dated a woman who was perhaps a modern courtesan...of a sort.
[14:54] Darlingmonster Ember cross references her footnotes
[14:54] Lynn Mimistrobell: Lastly, I have a notecard of some (in)famous courtesans, if you wish. Some of whom are pictured above....
[14:54] Daryll Bellecoeur: Please!
[14:54] Stereo Nacht: Please?
[14:54] AlasAndAlack attempts to cover her gaffaw at the mention of Victorian Kickstarter - the Courtesan Project.
[14:54] Stereo Nacht: Do you have some distribution device?
[14:55] Pamela Faerye raises her hand
[14:55] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander): Danke, Fraulein.
[14:55] Darlingmonster Ember: ty
[14:55] Lynn Mimistrobell: OK... any questions?
[14:55] Stereo Nacht: Thank you!
[14:55] Lynn Mimistrobell blushes.
[14:55] Emilly Orr: Thank you!
[14:55] Daryll Bellecoeur: Thank you. :-)
[14:55] 薔薇 Rose (holymary.loudwater): thanks lynn :)
[14:55] Solace Fairlady: Thank you Miss Lynn!
[14:55] Bookworm Hienrichs applauds.
[14:55] Lilah (delilah.revnik) applauds loudly!
[14:55] Darlingmonster Ember applauds
[14:55] Stereo Nacht:  `*.¸.*´ APPLAUSE `*.¸.*´APPLAUSE `*.¸.*´
[14:55] Solace Fairlady applauds!
[14:55] Erehwon (erehwon.yoshikawa): Halaa, Ms Lynn!
[14:55] Jimmy Branagh applauds!
[14:55] Pamela Faerye applauds and smiles
[14:55] Lynn Mimistrobell curtsies gracefully.
[14:55] Emilly Orr applauds, smiling.
[14:55] Solace Fairlady: bravo!
[14:55] Gloria Blackheart: thanks lynn :) that was a very interesting conference :))
[14:55] Jimmy Branagh: Bravo!
[14:55] Darlingmonster Ember: well done....good chat
[14:55] Ancelin Resident applauds!
[14:55] JJ Drinkwater: Brava!
[14:55] Stormy (stormy.stillwater): yay! were doomed!
[14:55] Daryll Bellecoeur applauds shyly... wonderful lecture!
[14:55] Omega Faith (dartra): can I have one please?
[14:55] Myrtil Igaly applauds
[14:55] Stereo Nacht: Thank you Miss Mimistrobell! Very informative!
[14:56] Dee Wells (promiscute): :D
[14:56] AlasAndAlack takes up the card eagerly and begins reading while trying to clap her hands together.
[14:56] Omega Faith (dartra): thank you
[14:56] Maria Lourdes Rodrigues Texeira (aoife.fotherington): thank you!
[14:56] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander): Bitte, if you wish to tip your appreciation, I will be picking up the jar in a few minutes.
[14:56] Beatrixe Rouse (beatrixerouse): Thanks Miss Bell
[14:56] Lynn Mimistrobell: Feel free to check out the slides above...
[14:56] Jarrad Somersfield (jarrad.whitfield): appplauds mandl "Bravo"
[14:56] Emilly Orr: As I've been given to understand, geisha were trained in the arts first, oiran in the expectation of sexual gratifications, and their attire symbolized this distinctly. Is this accurate?
[14:57] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander): Also, if you wish to support the existence of the Salon, tip the little airship or the signs around the side. We depend on your support.
[14:57] baylinda: BRAVO!!!!!!
[14:57] baylinda: ***** APPPPPPPLLLLAAAUUUSSSSEEEEEEE***********
[14:57] baylinda: .;:+*'`'* APPPPPPPLLLLAAAUUUSSSSEEEEEEE *'`'*+:;.
[14:57] baylinda: ♫~~♫~~APPLAUSE~~♫~~♫
[14:57] 薔薇 Rose (holymary.loudwater): Oiran preceded the Giesha
[14:57] Lynn Mimistrobell: That is the way I understand it, Miss Orr, and a lot of that has become very traditionalistic.
[14:57] Emilly Orr: Ah.
[14:57] Lynn Mimistrobell nods at Rose.
[14:57] Emilly Orr: So the culture of the oiran came first.
[14:58] Solace Fairlady: Thank you so much Miss Lynn, that was one of the best and most engaging Salons!
[14:58] Lynn Mimistrobell: awww, thank you!
[14:58] Jimmy Branagh: Yes, wos excellent!
[14:58] Solace Fairlady: Thank you Herr baron for giving us this opportunity for education:)
[14:58] Solace Fairlady bobs a curtsey
[14:58] Lilah (delilah.revnik) winks at Lynn, "Well done, darling!"
[14:58] Emilly Orr: Indeed. This was wonderful.
[14:58] Lynn Mimistrobell: The one I have highlighted is Cora Pearl, who has an interesting story on the card.
[14:58] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander): Bitte. I appreciate Fraulein Mimistrobell fitting us into her schedule.
[14:58] Erehwon (erehwon.yoshikawa): That was fantastic, Ms Lynn!
[14:58] Erehwon (erehwon.yoshikawa) blows Lynn a kiss.
[14:59] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander): Last chance for the tipjar. The Consulate Games Day will continue with the Seraph City Ice Cream Social.
[14:59] Lynn Mimistrobell: And Marie inspired Camille, La Traviata, etc.
[14:59] Elleon Bergamasco applauds
[14:59] Stereo Nacht: Good by all! And should you want to come for an ice cream and friendly discussion, do join the Consulate staff in Seraph City!
[14:59] Lynn Mimistrobell: Thank you all!
[14:59] Jonathon Spires claps politely
[14:59]  ίиđץ (india.canning): yay Lynn!
[14:59] Elleon Bergamasco: That was wonderful
[14:59] Jarrad Somersfield (jarrad.whitfield): Most stimulating
[15:00] Bookworm Hienrichs: Thank you all for coming! Next month is our anniversary, so join us for a special discussion!
[15:00] Jimmy Branagh: Thenks Miss Lynn!
[15:00] Lilah (delilah.revnik) grins at Jarrad, "So glad you could make it!"
[15:00] Jimmy Branagh: See yall at th' social.
[15:00] Jimmy Branagh waves
[15:00] Lynn Mimistrobell smiles.
[15:00] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander): We will want your input on Your Salon.
[15:00] Pamela Faerye: Well done, Lynn. I had a question, but SL did not want me to ask it apparently. :)
[15:00] Lynn Mimistrobell: Awww, you can ask!
[15:01] Pamela Faerye laughs ... You are very kind. I'd just wondered about courtesans in old age. Did they save up their earnings and retire to the country or find other clients who 'appreciated' older women?
[15:01] Erehwon (erehwon.yoshikawa) carefully works her way through the room.
[15:02] Lilah (delilah.revnik) grins as she watches Ereh parade through.
[15:02] Erehwon (erehwon.yoshikawa): Hello, Tia.
[15:02] Emilly Orr: That is an impressive gown, isn't it?
[15:02] Lynn Mimistrobell: Well..... thats a good one. Some died fairly broke....some actually married a patron and were titled.... some retired... but probably many more unknown ones faced trials and violence.
[15:02] Maria Lourdes Rodrigues Texeira (aoife.fotherington): Yes?
[15:03] Lynn Mimistrobell: Veronica Franco faces the Inquisition, and died relatively broke, as did Cora.
[15:03] Lynn Mimistrobell: Marie died so young, which adds to her legend.
[15:03] Pamela Faerye: Ouch. So it did not end well at all for most. Let's hope they lived it up fully when they could.
[15:03] Jarrad Somersfield (jarrad.whitfield): Thankyou all and especailly Lynn, Youmust excuse me.
[15:03] Lynn Mimistrobell: Of course, Jarrad.
[15:03]  ίиđץ (india.canning): bye jarrad!!
[15:03] Lilah (delilah.revnik): Take care, Jarrad! Good to see ya, hon.

No comments: