Monday, January 18, 2010

Children! January Aether Salon - unedited transcript

[14:01] Viv Trafalgar: we'll be starting in about 30 seconds if everyone can find a seat?
[14:01] Rod Zeddmore: mum!
[14:01] Viv Trafalgar: hello Beq!
[14:01] Everest Piek: ??7
[14:02] Viv Trafalgar: Hello Sam!
[14:02] Myrtil Igaly: stage is for speakers heheh
[14:02] Jimmy Branagh: Everest ifn ya stay there ya gotta sing fer everyone
[14:02] Everest Piek: Captain.. Jean-Luc Pic-card... of the U.S.S.... Ent-ter-prise...
[14:02] Nat Merit: (still waiting for anything to rez)
[14:02] Serafina Puchkina: Hello Miss Beq.
[14:02] Beq Janus: smiles at all the gray shadows
[14:02] Everest Piek: lol
[14:02] Serafina Puchkina: Hello everyone
[14:02] Sam Ermintrood: hi viv
[14:02] Viv Trafalgar: Hi Alaex!
[14:02] Everest Piek: about children in victorian times?
[14:02] Myrtil Igaly: yup
[14:02] KlausWulfenbach Outlander raises his eyebrows
[14:02] Everest Piek: you dont want me to sing
[14:02] Nat Merit: I see a few people with grey or blurry textures now
[14:02] Viv Trafalgar: please turn music and dance items off, as well as weapons, slingshots
[14:02] Jedburgh30 Dagger: Make sure you push in a little to make sure you can hear the speakers
[14:02] Loki Eliot: wow everest your looking smart today
[14:02] Viv Trafalgar: matches - i see you there mister
[14:02] Viv Trafalgar: Hello Barron!
[14:02] Victor1st Mornington: Baron Wulfenbach, good to see you sir
[14:02] Saffia Widdershins smiles
[14:02] Bookworm Hienrichs: Good day, Baron!
[14:02] Tepic Harlequin: what a lot of people!
[14:02] Viv Trafalgar: Welcome
[14:02] Everest Piek: except you wantr evryone to have tears in his/her eyes
[14:02] Grazen Barbosa: Hello.
[14:03] Aeolus Cleanslate touches his brim
[14:03] KlausWulfenbach Outlander: Guten Abend.
[14:03] Victor1st Mornington: Mr Cleanslate :)
[14:03] Jedburgh30 Dagger: If any of you new folks need a chair please ask Jasper for one
[14:03] Myrtil Igaly: Hello Miss Janus!
[14:03] Viv Trafalgar clears her throat
[14:03] Annechen Lowey: Hallo, sir.
[14:03] Viv Trafalgar: Ladies and Gentlemen...
[14:03] Sam Ermintrood: hello meg
[14:03] Viv Trafalgar: and urchins!
[14:03] Meg Howe waves
[14:03] Viv Trafalgar: welcome to the January Aether Salon - Children! A look at the experience of and literature about children in Victorian England, as well as in New Babbage.
[14:03] KlausWulfenbach Outlander nods to his Vice Consul
[14:04] Taliesin Daines: Hello Nat
[14:04] Viv Trafalgar: A look at the experience of and literature about children in Victorian England, as well as in New Babbage.
[14:04] Viv Trafalgar: We are pleased to welcome you to our fourteenth Salon - we think you will find the experience most enlightening, though some of the images and language may be fairly hair-raising.
[14:04] Viv Trafalgar: If you have a weak stomach... oh well if you did, you wouldn't be in the Steamlands - nevermind that.
[14:04] Victor1st Mornington chuckles
[14:04] Rhianon Jameson laughs
[14:04] Viv Trafalgar: The Aether Salon meets to discuss steam and Victorian topics on the third Sunday of each month, in Palisades, New Babbage.
[14:04] Saffia Widdershins laughs
[14:04] Viv Trafalgar: You can learn more at
[14:04] Viv Trafalgar: We sincerely appreciate the support we receive from everyone in the community, and we humbly thank you all. Many fine people have contributed to today’s Salon:
[14:04] Jimmy Branagh chuskles
[14:04] Anastasio Luminos grins
[14:04] Viv Trafalgar: we are grateful to Miss Ceejay Writer, Mr. Rafael Fabre, Captain Redgirl Llewellen, Canolli Capalini of Capalini Fine Furnishings for the chairs, and Miss Breezy Carver and Miss Ahnyanka Delphin for the stage.
[14:05] Viv Trafalgar: Please hold your questions until the end, and as a courtesy to all, please turn off everything that remotely resembles HUDs, scripts, AOs and so on. Please no weapons, bombs, or biting, without at least a modicum of wit accompanying.
[14:05] Viv Trafalgar: Mark your calendars for upcoming salons: A special Saturday Salon on February 20 featuring Capalini Music Boxes. (No better rezzay could there be, ever I tell you.)
[14:05] Viv Trafalgar: Ahem. Upcoming Salons will include Haberdashery with Mr. Edward Pierce, Ironclads with Commodore Hotspur O'Toole, Photography with Mr PJ Trenton, and Airwaves with Miss Gabrielle Riel.
[14:05] Viv Trafalgar: Please join the Aether Salon group and receive notifications of future salon events, click the lower right hand corner of the large brown sign by the entrance. As a reminder, all speakers' fund jar donations go directly to the speakers.
[14:05] Tepic Harlequin: can we bite anyone who pats our heads? oh.. sorry.. that's a question...
[14:05] Gilhooly Skute: hoi Vivi!
[14:05] Viv Trafalgar: I'd like to welcome Miss Jedburgh Dagger to introduce the speakers.
[14:06] Mara Razor kicks her computer
[14:06] Jedburgh30 Dagger: Thank you, Viv. Today it is my great honor to introduce today's speakers:
[14:06] Vivi Boxen: Hey skute
[14:06] Gilhooly Skute grabs some snacks
[14:06] Mara Razor: gilly!
[14:06] Nikolas Souther: Good day, everyone.
[14:06] Gilhooly Skute: hoi miss Mara!
[14:06] Vivi Boxen: I am stuck tp me in please
[14:06] Jedburgh30 Dagger: Saffia Widdershins is best known, perhaps, as the editor of The Primgraph and Prim Perfect magazines, and as the presenter of Designing Worlds on Treet TV. But for her first degree, she studied English Literature and, as part of that degree, wrote a dissertation on children's literature - which has remained a love. It was called a Consideration of Human Relationships in Children’s Literature 1850 – 1950, with particular reference to the school story, and Saffia was planning to call the spin-off book Beatings and Bosom Friends. That, sadly, was never written - but Miss Widdershins joins us today to share some aspects of the genre, which she hopes we may find of interest
[14:06] Vivi Boxen: I am stuck please can you tp me
[14:06] Rod Zeddmore: 1950?!
[14:06] Rhianon Jameson: She can see into the future. :)
[14:07] Mara Razor: i brought some cheese for you! *prduces an impressivel large hung of cheese from the folds of her skirts* here you go dear
[14:07] Gilhooly Skute gasps, "blimey!"
[14:07] Jedburgh30 Dagger: Jimmy Branagh came to New Babbage nearly three years ago, following Loki Eliot into town after having escaped the cruel tutelage of the orphanage where he'd been imprisoned for five years following the death of his parents in a mysterious house fire. At that time the urchin population was exploding and Jim made many friends among them and the fine people of New Babbage, a growing town that seemed to take the urchins under its wing. He is a veteran of much of the history of the city, including the terrible Eliot Affair and the battle with Jason Moriarity; the strange tale of the Babbage Cuckoos; the attack on Doctor Obolensky's Clockspire Cove; the mysteries of Dagon Hall and the rescue of Miss Mara Razor from the clutches of the Mole King. He won the 2008 Annual New Babbage Burning Barrel Race and the Pancake Race.
[14:07] Saffia Widdershins: That was (confusingly) a long time ago, Rodd
[14:07] Mara Razor hugs gilly, "i've missed you dear"
[14:07] Victor1st Mornington nods to stargirl
[14:07] Jedburgh30 Dagger: He is currently Captain of the New Babbage Aether Corps and designer of the first combat ornithopter in New Babbage history. Jimmy has been attacked, tortured, severely pummeled and even marginally insulted by the evil that occasionally rises in New Babbage, but saunters back each time from the precipice with a smile on his face and a drink in his hand. He is ineffably loyal to New Babbage and to his friends
[14:07] Viv Trafalgar listens intently to Jed
[14:08] Gilhooly Skute hugs and smiles, "me too, ye I mean"
[14:08] Jim waves
[14:08] Jedburgh30 Dagger: Myrtil has been wandering in the streets of New Babbage for three years. Orphaned at 5 years old and sent to an orphanage, she escaped five years later. She is happy to say she can always count on all her friends to help her and cheer her up, having had a few problems with her crazy aunt and cousin and mourning the loss of the bakery she inheriting from her grandfather on Jefferson Way after it was bombed. Myrtil just recently moved to the city of Steelhead, near the Saint Helens, where her squirrel Flynn and her are enjoying the fresh air and wild nature, and she is trying to restore an old windmill in the woods near the river. She still likes visiting New Babbage from time to time though, as it is, after all, her birth-city. Myrtil wants to become an airship pilot, like her father, and is fascinated by the medical sciences. Nevertheless, she is not going to school.
[14:08] Vivi Boxen: Hey miss Mara and thanks for the Tp
[14:08] Mara Razor: hi vivi *hugs*
[14:08] Myrtil Igaly waves too
[14:08] Viv Trafalgar chuckles
[14:08] Jedburgh30 Dagger: Please join me in welcoming our first speaker, Miss Saffia Widdershins.
[14:09] Vivi Boxen hugs back
[14:09] Viv Trafalgar: huzzah!
[14:09] Jimmy Branagh applauds.
[14:09] Rhianon Jameson claps
[14:09] Viv Trafalgar: claps
[14:09] Tsula Foxtrot claps
[14:09] Victor1st Mornington cheers
[14:09] Myrtil Igaly whistles
[14:09] Jedburgh30 Dagger: applauds
[14:09] Jasper Kiergarten: yaa
[14:09] Vivi Boxen cheers
[14:09] Nat Merit applauds
[14:09] Serafina Puchkina claps
[14:09] Rod Zeddmore: ((I think i've missed a lot in babbage))
[14:09] Everest Piek: /memclaps politely
[14:09] Will Wrentling puts aside the cake to applaud
[14:09] Stargirl Macbain claps
[14:09] Gilhooly Skute: hurrah!
[14:09] Meg Howe: ((Grrr brb))
[14:10] Taliesin Daines: /meclaps
[14:10] Viv Trafalgar nods at the well behaved urchins
[14:10] Bowie Beaumont: ty
[14:10] Mishka Pomeray: yw
[14:10] Mara Razor thinks it won't last
[14:10] Rod Zeddmore giggles
[14:10] KlausWulfenbach Outlander applauds
[14:10] Viv Trafalgar prays it will last a bit
[14:11] Sevian Ninetails looks amazed to all the mistress and misters around
[14:11] Saffia Widdershins: Hello everyone ... I'm delighted to be here today
[14:11] Jimmy squints and peers around the room.
[14:11] Tepic Harlequin: hi Red, didn't see ya there!
[14:11] Saffia Widdershins: to talk to you about a subject I love - a love that is not shared by everyone. In fact ...
[14:11] Saffia Widdershins: When I was a student, I was able to do my research in the Bodleian Library, one of the finest libraries in the world and – as a copyright library – the holder of a copy of every book published – including children’s books. It has fantastic repositories (known as the stacks).
[14:11] Reddancer LittleBoots: Hullo Tepic
[14:12] Richardus Raymaker: hi tepic
[14:12] Saffia Widdershins: A significant part of central Oxford sits on top of layer after layer of booklined cellars that stretch almost a mile. A small train ferries books from these shelves to the elevators where they can be lifted into the main library. [14:12] Richardus Raymaker: !hug tepic
[14:12] Richardus Raymaker: hello red
[14:12] Rhianon Jameson marvels at all those books, and drools a little
[14:12] Richardus Raymaker: hee everest
[14:12] Mara Razor waves to red
[14:12] Tepic Harlequin: hi richardus :-)
[14:12] Reddancer LittleBoots waves
[14:12] Saffia Widdershins: On my first day of studying, I strode confidently to the desk and presented a list of volumes I wanted from the stacks.
[14:12] Saffia Widdershins: “It will take a day and a half to get these,” said the librarian. “They’re stored at our external stacks at Nuneham Courtney.” This is a manor house, about five miles outside Oxford.
[14:12] Richardus Raymaker: ㋡ ☆*¨¨*:•.•:*¨* hallo hello hi holla *¨¨*:•.•:*¨*☆ ㋡
[14:12] Richardus Raymaker: hey
[14:12] Mara Razor smiles at star
[14:12] Stargirl Macbain smiles at Mara
[14:12] Vivi Boxen: Ok if i stand here? (If i move i crash...))
[14:13] Annechen Lowey blinks.
[14:13] Bookworm Hienrichs chuckles.
[14:13] Saffia Widdershins: “Are you sure?” I responded, surprised. “Some of these books are quite recently published.”
[14:13] Vivi Boxen: Hey Tsula how're you?
[14:13] Tsula Foxtrot listens
[14:13] Saffia Widdershins: The librarian permitted herself a frosty smile. “We don’t have many child readers in the Bodleian,” she said.
[14:13] Taliesin Daines: Haha I Know that problem Viv
[14:13] KlausWulfenbach Outlander chuckles at Fraulein Widdershin's story.
[14:13] Victor1st Mornington: ohhhhhhhhh my....
[14:13] Saffia Widdershins: Well, with me put firmly in my place, let’s proceed to the meeting of my talk today!
[14:14] Anastasio Luminos grins
[14:14] Saffia Widdershins: It goes without saying that children’s books are, with very few exceptions, written by adults for children and therefore can be expected to tell us something of how adults perceive the children they write for.
[14:14] Saffia Widdershins: And two strands of the writing becomes clear, as we might also see in writing for adults too: the desire to inform, and the desire to entertain. And there is also a recognition that information may be best occasioned through entertainment.
[14:14] Reddancer LittleBoots: /me
[14:14] Richardus Raymaker: hi sam
[14:15] Saffia Widdershins: We can see this in many forms of media dissemination, from the creation of, for example, textbooks that teach schoolchildren a foreign language
[14:15] Sam Ermintrood: hi rich
[14:15] Saffia Widdershins: In this presentation, I’m proposing to concentrate on fiction rather than instructional writing for children – although there was considerable overlap between the two. I’ll be looking at the nineteenth century, which saw the first real explosion of fiction for children.
[14:15] Saffia Widdershins: Right from the start, it was clear that there were two distinct ways of regarding children – and that these would play a part in the development of children’s fiction.
[14:16] Saffia Widdershins: The first comes from the Evangelical tradition, in England represented by the Methodists and later by the growing Evangelical movement within the Church of England. You might see it as epitomised by Mrs Pardiggle in Bleak House, with her unruly and obnoxious bunch of boys, going to distribute her tracts to the unwilling poor.
[14:16] Taliesin Daines: Yes, a brilliant example
[14:16] Saffia Widdershins: There was an intense belief here children were the products of Original Sin – that they were infected with Original Sin themselves (which manifested itself in naughty behaviour).
[14:17] Viv Trafalgar: Imagine!
[14:17] Saffia Widdershins: And it was this which inspired one of the early classics of the genre – The History of the Fairchild Family, by Mrs Sherwood. The first part was published in 1818; the second and third parts between 1842 and 1847.
[14:17] Rhianon Jameson: Heh
[14:17] Vivi Boxen: Is that where spankins came from? To sort of beat the devil out our gobs?
[14:17] Saffia Widdershins: I should say that Miss Puchkina has placed on the table here copies of many of the volumes I shall be referring to
[14:18] Saffia Widdershins: and you can take copies away to peruse at your leisure
[14:18] Viv Trafalgar: oh wonderful
[14:18] Jimmy Branagh: Yay!
[14:18] Anastasio Luminos cranes his neck and looks at the table with interest.
[14:18] Stargirl Macbain: Oooer!
[14:18] Jedburgh30 Dagger points to table to my right
[14:18] Jimmy Branagh: Oh ... sorry ...
[14:18] Jasper Kiergarten: takes a quick moment to remind folks to drop me a note if you need a chair :)
[14:18] Rod Zeddmore: how do we know which book is which?
[14:18] Saffia Widdershins: The History of the Fairchild Family is a heavily instructional volume, thick with prayers and exhortations to virtue – almost every chapter contains prayers to be used by the children reading it.
[14:19] Viv Trafalgar whispers Rod you need to go to school to learn to read the covers
[14:19] Saffia Widdershins: And the incidents that are related are quite shocking to us in their extremity – when his children quarrel, Mr Fairchild takes them to see the body of a murderer suspended on a gibbet; Augusta Noble, a spoiled child of wealthy parents who takes up candles when forbidden to do so, in order to admire her pretty frock ... and is burned to death.
[14:19] Vivi Boxen: Oh wicked
[14:19] Tepic Harlequin: that's a good one to use as firelighters then....
[14:19] Mara Razor whispers to gilly, "sounds terribly dull"
[14:19] Bookworm Hienrichs whistles.
[14:19] Rhianon Jameson: Seems extreme.
[14:19] Saffia Widdershins: The funeral, too, is described in detail.
[14:19] Vivi Boxen takes a copy
[14:19] Victor1st Mornington: ohhhhhh my
[14:19] Saffia Widdershins: The popularity of the book actually continued throughout the nineteenth century, although accommodations were made for changing tastes; for example the phrase "human depravity" was replaced with the word "naughtiness."
[14:20] Gilhooly Skute grimaces to Mara and nods
[14:20] Victor1st Mornington: political correctness in its infancy *chuckles*
[14:20] Myrtil Igaly: Better be naughty than a depraved human I guess..
[14:20] Saffia Widdershins: Over the years, this didactic strain in children’s literature was softened – and sometimes even blended with fantasy. We can see this in stories like Down the Snow Stairs by Alice Corkran, first published in 1887, where on Christmas Eve, eight-year-old Kitty cannot sleep, knowing that her beloved little brother is critically ill due to her own disobedience.
[14:20] Taliesin Daines: Similar to the German "Struwelpeter" stories
[14:20] Jimmy Branagh: Well, you can be both Myrtil!
[14:20] Jimmy snerks
[14:20] Myrtil Igaly smiles angelically : Not me.
[14:20] Saffia Widdershins: Traveling in a dream to Naughty Children Land, she meets many strange people, including Daddy Coax and Lady Love. Kitty longs to return to the Path of Obedience but has to resist the many temptations she faces.
[14:21] Viv Trafalgar stifles a laugh
[14:21] Tepic Harlequin: blimy....
[14:21] Cliodna Oakleaf: aww
[14:21] Saffia Widdershins: And, perhaps more widely known is Charles Kingsley’s fantasy, The Water Babies, first published in 1862-1863 – Victorian serial publication! - with its tale of the poor chimney sweep, Tom, who is drowned, and then finds moral redemption through those redoubtable female instructresses: Mrs. Doasyouwouldbedoneby, Mrs. Bedonebyasyoudid, and Mother Carey.
[14:21] Mara Razor: naughty children land? she cae to bbbage?
[14:21] Vivi Boxen: Sound awesme
[14:21] Saffia Widdershins: There's a picture up in one corner showing Mr Kinglsley - and illustrations from his book
[14:21] Breezy Carver laughs
[14:21] Tsula Foxtrot: D=
[14:22] Saffia Widdershins: in fact, the posters around here are intended to act as illustrations to this :-)
[14:22] Vivi Boxen: oh fantastic and ingenius
[14:22] Tsula Foxtrot growls
[14:22] Saffia Widdershins: Interestingly, most critics have focused on the moral instruction of the tale, and ignored its approach to science – Kingsley, a muscular Christian, was a supporter of Darwin’s and Huxley’s approach to science and evolution.
[14:22] Vivi Boxen: Tsula is your tummy hungry?
[14:23] Saffia Widdershins: His attitude was that he had “gradually learnt to see that it is just as noble a conception of Deity, to believe that He created primal forms capable of self development into all forms needful pro tempore and pro loco, as to believe that He required a fresh act of intervention to supply the lacunas which He Himself had made.”
[14:23] Tsula Foxtrot: Nope
[14:23] Mara Razor: i keep tsula well fed
[14:23] Gilhooly Skute: oh that's Huxley like Huxley Hall innit?
[14:23] Jimmy Branagh: Teht must be expensive!
[14:23] Saffia Widdershins: At the same time, an alternative strand was growing up. The origins of this lay in the romantic tradition, and in the teachings of the Swiss French philosopher, Jean- Jacques Rousseau (1712 – 1778).
[14:23] Anastasio Luminos: That's an interesting take on evolution.
[14:24] Saffia Widdershins: Raised in strictly Protestant – indeed, Calvinist – Geneva, he rebelled against its doctrine of the total depravity of man when he converted to Catholicism as a teenager. In one of his most famous works, Emile, or On Education, he describes what he conceived to be the necessary and perfect education for producing the ideal citizen.
[14:24] Myrtil Igaly: Which should involve no school...
[14:24] Saffia Widdershins: It contained ideas that were revolutionary – that children should not be swaddled, that they should be nursed by their own mothers and – above all – that education of young children should be derived less from books and more from interactions with the natural world.
[14:24] Jimmy Branagh: Yes!
[14:24] Sam Ermintrood: yeah
[14:24] Breezy Carver grins
[14:24] Myrtil Igaly: Hah!
[14:24] Myrtil Igaly: See! No books!
[14:24] KlausWulfenbach Outlander: Some of us needed a book or two.
[14:24] Saffia Widdershins: That last seems to be the practice with regard to the Babbage urchins!
[14:25] Jimmy Branagh: Interactions loike goin' fishin' an' stuff.
[14:25] Gilhooly Skute: books are 'andy for standin' on to reach tall things
[14:25] Tepic Harlequin: books is ok, it's schools as is dangerous...
[14:25] Vivi Boxen: Fantastic!
[14:25] Annechen Lowey chuckles.
[14:25] Jimmy Branagh: Actually Oy read a lot ...
[14:25] Mara Razor: i'll vouch for ihm
[14:26] Rhianon Jameson sighs and wonders where Dr. Obolelnsky is when you need him to keep urchins profitably occupied.
[14:26] Saffia Widdershins: Rousseau’s philosophy had a profound impact on ideas about child-rearing – and still has even today (Montessori schools, for example). [14:26] Richardus Raymaker: books are good to use a sladder.
[14:26] Saffia Widdershins: In the nineteenth century, to follow Rousseau was to be daring, almost shockingly in rebellion against a societal desire that children should be disciplined, should be seen and not heard. But, bolstered by the popularity of the English Romantics – particularly Wordsworth – the concept that children could learn from nature, would benefit from freedom in childhood under the watchful gaze of loving parents, gained apace.
[14:26] Mara Razor scowls at the mention of obolelsky's name
[14:26] Sevian Ninetails can't read so has no problems with books
[14:27] Vivi Boxen: I love reading
[14:27] Anastasio Luminos: Books are like people. It's what's inside them that makes them good or bad.
[14:27] Myrtil Igaly things some Babbage citizen should listen to Rousseau more
[14:27] Viv Trafalgar: nicely put Anastasio
[14:27] Saffia Widdershins: And this was reflected in children’s literature where a strand developed that laid stress not on the corruption and depravity from which children must be rescued by brute force, but on the innocence of childhood, which became something to be encouraged.
[14:27] Saffia Widdershins: A belief that might be regarded with some scepticism by those well acquainted with the urchins!
[14:27] Gilhooly Skute giggles
[14:27] Stargirl Macbain chuckles
[14:27] KlausWulfenbach Outlander: Heh.
[14:27] Anastasio Luminos gives Viv a warm smile
[14:28] Tepic Harlequin: eh?
[14:28] Myrtil Igaly looks at Miss Saffia with indignation
[14:28] Rhianon Jameson: Indeed.
[14:28] Taliesin Daines: Indeed
[14:28] Saffia Widdershins: And, along with the innocence came mischief, as the cult of what was known as the ‘Pickle’ was created. A pickle was a child who engaged in mischief – innocent mischief, undertaken for the best of intentions, sometimes; at other times undertaken with slightly more intent.
[14:28] Jimmy Branagh smiles beatifically.
[14:28] Mara Razor grins widely
[14:28] Saffia Widdershins: This strand in literature was to lead to such wonderful creations as The Bastable Family of E.Nesbit and the Just William stories of Richmal Compton.
[14:28] Sam Ermintrood: I'm a pickle :)
[14:28] Mara Razor: that's my boy!
[14:28] Myrtil Igaly nods : Lots of pickles around here
[14:28] Tsula Foxtrot: =D
[14:28] Jimmy Branagh: Yeh you are Sam.
[14:28] Nat Merit: firmly in the pickle pack :)
[14:28] Saffia Widdershins: But in Victorian times, it was a theme treated with more sentimentality, by writers such as Margaret Gatty (Mrs Gatty) in Aunt Judy’s Tales, her daughter Juliana Horatia Ewing, Mrs Ewing in novels such as Jackanapes (1884), and Mary Louisa Molesworth (Mrs Molesworth) in Hoodie (1882).
[14:28] Jimmy laughs.
[14:28] Taliesin Daines: Or in a pickle
[14:29] Saffia Widdershins: One thing notable about the Pickle stories in the use of ‘baby talk’ which was popularly supposed to be endearing. It can make the stories difficult to read these days, as much as the historical novels of writers as diverse as Sir Walter Scott and Charlotte M.Yonge that employ ‘thee’ and ‘thou’.
[14:29] Vivi Boxen: I am a cumcuber .. why not?
[14:29] Tepic Harlequin: Hoddies in 1882? wow...
[14:29] Mara Razor: is suddenly wishing she had a pickle to et
[14:29] Sam Ermintrood: a peppered pickle pack
[14:29] Reddancer LittleBoots giggles
[14:29] Nat Merit hands vivi some vinegar
[14:29] Saffia Widdershins: And, believe me, the baby talk of the Pickles is pretty much on a level with the baby talk you have used by some Second Life Children.
[14:29] Myrtil Igaly: Jimmy can be difficult to understand too
[14:29] Vivi Boxen: Hehe now i am a pickle
[14:29] Jimmy Branagh: Am not!
[14:29] Myrtil Igaly: sure are
[14:30] Stargirl Macbain: Are too!
[14:30] Nat Merit: a bit, some times
[14:30] Saffia Widdershins: The naughtiness of the pickle could be forgiven, because all recognised the worth of their true character. In Teddy: The Story of a Little Pickle by J. C. Hutcheson (1887), Teddy is spoken of as a ‘genial, good-tempered, and happy-dispositioned boy’ who possesses ‘pluck or fearless spirit’. For these qualities, much could be forgiven.
[14:30] Jimmy Branagh: Py speak perfek'ly understan'dable!
[14:30] Tepic Harlequin: oh no! please! not baby talk!
[14:30] Myrtil Igaly grins
[14:30] Taliesin Daines: I don't think HOodie was a yob
[14:30] KlausWulfenbach Outlander thinks Herr Branagh's reports are perfectly clear.
[14:30] Jimmy Branagh: Danke, Herr Baron!
[14:30] Saffia Widdershins: The Pickle stories, I think it’s worth noting, essentially concern middle class children. That’s not to say that children in a wide range of social classes are incapable of being naughty ... as witnessed by the Babbage urchins. [14:31] Jimmy Branagh: See Oy gots th' German thing goin' too.
[14:31] Tsula Foxtrot rolls his eyes
[14:31] Tepic Harlequin thinks about this....
[14:31] Saffia Widdershins: But by and large literature aimed at the working classes did not wish to encourage naughtiness, even innocent, high-spirited mischief.
[14:31] Breezy Carver grins
[14:31] KlausWulfenbach Outlander grins
[14:31] Saffia Widdershins: This was an age when the working classes were expected to know their place – and be grateful for what treats might come their way – such as a Sunday school outing in the country – beautifully described in one of Charlotte M.Yonge’s novels, Hopes and Fears.
[14:31] Viv Trafalgar: nods that seems wise
[14:31] Jimmy Branagh: Some of th' rich kids are terrible behyved.
[14:31] Taliesin Daines: Well, the Nesbit children certainly do outrageous things
[14:32] Myrtil Igaly: We're always perfectly behaved on the contrary
[14:32] Reddancer LittleBoots: I am going to have allot of reading to do later
[14:32] Tepic Harlequin: an bad mannered!
[14:32] Vivi Boxen: Some rich kids are brats
[14:32] Breezy Carver: sunday school .. ?? makes noe of that for babbage ☆smiles ☆
[14:32] Jimmy Branagh: Well, Oy am anywhys.
[14:32] Saffia Widdershins: One significant feature of the Pickle stories was the frequent use of a dangerous – sometimes fatal accident, an accident that marked a grave change in the novel. Either the central character is injured, or he or she causes injury to a sibling.
[14:32] Nat Merit: perfectly contrary anyway
[14:32] Tepic Harlequin: double blimy!
[14:32] KlausWulfenbach Outlander: Perfectly scamp-like, you mean.
[14:32] Saffia Widdershins: In the latter case, the injured child was likely to survive, and the main character would learn what would be deemed a “valuable lesson” that would lead to their reformation – or at least to their becoming more mature and responsible.
[14:32] Vivi Boxen: poor kids might be naughty sometimes, but they are ise
[14:33] Loki Eliot: poor triky
[14:33] Myrtil Igaly looks sad
[14:33] Vivi Boxen: wise*
[14:33] Saffia Widdershins: But sometimes the child died – a reflection of the fact that at this period, infant mortality was high, and it was not unexpected to lose one or maybe more children before they reached adulthood.
[14:33] Mara Razor: my scamps never do anything wrong - just ask sheiff ortega
[14:33] Taliesin Daines: True
[14:33] Gilhooly Skute: the first after-school special!
[14:33] Nat Merit misses him, a nice fire in the corner, that's what's missing...
[14:34] Myrtil Igaly: Don't say Triky died to make us become more mature
[14:34] Saffia Widdershins: Interestingly, as the period progressed, the nature of child death changed. We see this in adult novels too – there is quite a change from the death of Little Nell in The Old Curiousity Shop – highly sentimentalised but actually occurring off-stage, to the death of Paul Dombey in Dombey and Son, to the polemical death of Jo in Bleak House and – finally – to what I find the most moving child death in all Dickens, the death of little Johnnie in Our Mutual Friend.
[14:34] Tepic Harlequin: goodness... they really like children , didn't they!
[14:34] Aeolus Cleanslate: ` -
[14:35] Breezy Carver sniff sniff
[14:35] Saffia Widdershins: Here Dickens abandons highly wrought prose for the simplicity that Shakespeare uses for breaking the news of the death of the Macduff family – and by gum, it works.
[14:35] Anastasio Luminos: Sounds like a pretty somber period in children's fiction.
[14:35] Saffia Widdershins: In children’s literature, there were also a great number of deaths – at first serving Dire Warrnings as in the burning to death of Augusta Noble in The History of the Fairchild Family, but as the century wore on, the deaths became less warnings and instead occasions for sentiment, till by Florence Montgomery’s Misunderstood in 1869, Humphrey’s dying takes up a third of the book.
[14:35] Jimmy Branagh: Loife can get pretty rough.
[14:35] Anastasio Luminos nods knowlingly to Jimmy
[14:36] Tepic Harlequin: dying over a third of a book sounds fairly rough too...
[14:36] Sam Ermintrood: yeah
[14:36] Myrtil Igaly: maybe it's a three pages book
[14:36] Saffia Widdershins: Misunderstood was intended to be read by adults as well as children, but in, in actual fact, the child death – or the child injury – was not uncommon in books intended for children too – including many of the examples I cited earlier, and others such as Seven Little Australians by Ethel Turner (1894), Little Women Part 2 by Louisa M Alcott (1869), A Bit o’ Green by Mrs Ewing and many more.
[14:36] Saffia Widdershins: One motif that became common in such books was the dying child’s desire to hear prayers. This was, of course, shorthand for informing the readers that the dying child was in a state of grace and would be going to heaven – similar to the way that dying children frequently were described of having visions of their dead mothers, other children, and/or flowers.
[14:37] Myrtil Igaly wonders what Triky saw when he died
[14:37] Saffia Widdershins: As the century wore on, this convention became altered – often the prayers would be replaced by hymns ... then by songs the children had loved.
[14:37] Mara Razor: flames and pitchforks myrtil
[14:37] Myrtil Igaly: probably
[14:37] Viv Trafalgar winces
[14:37] Stargirl Macbain: That's terrible.
[14:37] Saffia Widdershins: Until we come to the most bizarre example of all – A Toy Tragedy by Mrs Henry de la Pasture (1906), where the siblings gather around the deathbed of their sister, a pickle of the first order, and, at her command, serenade her dying with the much-loved song: “Come landlord, fill the flowing bowl”
[14:37] Nat Merit: he liked flames
[14:37] Jimmy Branagh snerfs
[14:38] Nat Merit: don't know about pitchforks
[14:38] Breezy Carver sigh ...
[14:38] Tepic Harlequin: Triky had Myrtil rootin fer him, so no pitchforks...
[14:38] Myrtil Igaly: If I'm dying I'd like to hear the voice of the doctor, not a song please
[14:38] Viv Trafalgar: hahaha
[14:38] Nat Merit: not even River Song?
[14:38] Saffia Widdershins: There’s much more that I could say – for example on the sadism and sexuality of the portrayal of beatings in boys’ school stories, some of which read rather like classics of some rather dubious genres.
[14:38] Rhianon Jameson: The doctor saying "It's too late - nothing we can do here." :)
[14:38] Nat Merit: oh different Doctor...
[14:39] Mara Razor: well, he was a a big meanie
[14:39] Anastasio Luminos eeps!
[14:39] Jimmy Branagh: Yeh, Oy know about them beatings.
[14:39] Viv Trafalgar: ::coughs loudly - perhaps ANOTHER time Miss Widdershins?::
[14:39] Mara Razor laughs at myrtil
[14:39] Saffia Widdershins: There’s also the cult of the dead mother – and why that was maintained well into the twentieth century. But I hope to have whetted your appetites enough for you to learn more!
[14:39] Vivi Boxen: Of father we ask of you keep these children safe and sound, for they are lost from their family for many a reason please return them home before end of season, place your loving arms around each little should and guide thm hom strong as soldiers amen.
[14:39] Jasper Kiergarten: drop me a note if you need a chair, folks
[14:39] Saffia Widdershins: The End :-)
[14:39] Vivi Boxen: A childrens prayer i learnt
[14:39] Myrtil Igaly: So they killed the mother and then the child
[14:39] Richardus Raymaker: on the street there no chairs to
[14:39] Bookworm Hienrichs applauds.
[14:39] Rhianon Jameson applauds
[14:40] Breezy Carver: ✰·.·´` Claps Very Loudly!! ´`·.·✰
[14:40] Nat Merit: brava!
[14:40] Reddancer LittleBoots: \o/
[14:40] Myrtil Igaly claps
[14:40] Gilhooly Skute: hurrah! brilliant
[14:40] Csteph Submariner applauds
[14:40] Alaex Aeon claps
[14:40] Reliable Barthelmess applauds
[14:40] Viv Trafalgar: thank you Saffia – wonderful
[14:40] Victor1st Mornington cheers
[14:40] Gilhooly Skute: such a history
[14:40] Will Wrentling applauds
[14:40] Annechen Lowey: `*.¸.*´ APPLAUSE `*.¸.*´APPLAUSE `*.¸.*´
[14:40] Jimmy Branagh applauds.
[14:40] Stargirl Macbain claps
[14:40] Bookworm Hienrichs is very interesting in reading these books now.
[14:40] Myrtil Igaly whistles
[14:40] Tepic Harlequin: thank you Miss :-)
[14:40] Jimmy Branagh: Thet was great!
[14:40] Jedburgh30 Dagger: Now folks, we turn the stage over to Jimmy and Myrtil...
[14:40] Mara Razor: applauds
[14:40] Serafina Puchkina applauds
[14:40] Vivi Boxen: I say that ever night
[14:40] Csteph Submariner: excellent
[14:40] Myrtil Igaly sits still
[14:40] KlausWulfenbach Outlander applauds
[14:40] Stargirl Macbain claps, "Yay Jimmy and Myrtil!"
[14:40] Mara Razor cheers and whistles
[14:40] Viv Trafalgar: cheers
[14:41] Saffia Widdershins applauds
[14:41] Jimmy Branagh: Oy guess Oy should sye "Ladies first" eh, Myrtil?
[14:41] Nat Merit: wooo!
[14:41] Rhianon Jameson claps
[14:41] Myrtil Igaly: Yes, that's ladies first
[14:41] Jedburgh30 Dagger: To get their perspective on urchindom and their perspectives on child life in Victorian times
[14:41] Anastasio Luminos stands and applauds
[14:41] Myrtil Igaly: eh
[14:41] KlausWulfenbach Outlander: Good man, Herr Jimmy.
[14:41] Myrtil Igaly: no!!!
[14:41] Jimmy laughs.
[14:41] Breezy Carver grins ...
[14:41] Myrtil Igaly: No no, go ahead Jimmy
[14:41] Vivi Boxen cheers
[14:41] Jimmy Branagh: You sure Myrtil?
[14:41] Vivi Boxen: great speech
[14:41] Myrtil Igaly: yes, sure
[14:42] Jimmy Branagh: Allroight. This toime ...
[14:42] Jimmy Branagh: ((I'll drop my usual Cockney for the time being. :) ))
[14:42] Sevian Ninetails: better :P
[14:42] Rhianon Jameson: Bless you, son.
[14:42] Reddancer LittleBoots: ehehe
[14:42] Mara Razor whispers hi rod
[14:42] Stargirl Macbain: But translation is half the fun hehe
[14:42] Jimmy Branagh: I foirst came to Babbage after being on the grid for only a couple of months.
[14:42] Myrtil Igaly: Told you you were hard to understand..
[14:43] Jimmy Branagh: Loki was involved in building, and I came to see what he was doing.
[14:43] Jimmy Branagh: There were already a few kids around. I had no idea how to be an urchin.
[14:44] Jimmy Branagh: My experience with this era all came from seeing the film OLIVER! and from the Masterpiece Theatre shows.
[14:44] Jimmy Branagh: So I just applied what I remembered from there and it seemed to work out allright
[14:44] Viv Trafalgar grins
[14:44] Myrtil Igaly: You learnt the accent there too?
[14:45] Nat Merit: Mary Poppins, I thought?
[14:45] Breezy Carver grins
[14:45] Jimmy Branagh: Gradually, when your here playing that role, you pick up bits and pieces from others, and expand your character that way.
[14:45] Sevian Ninetails: supercalifragilistikespiralidocious
[14:45] Vivi Boxen: Thanks Polly *giggles*
[14:45] Jimmy Branagh: I knew zip about the Victorian era.
[14:46] Sam Ermintrood: wow yer been waitin tas get that in sevian :)
[14:46] Jimmy Branagh: But since then, I've learned quite a bit.
[14:46] Breezy Carver smiles
[14:46] Vivi Boxen: Hehe m mam claims she created dangermouse
[14:46] Jimmy Branagh: We tend to romanticize the era here, even the bad stuff has a comic or happy edge to it.
[14:46] Lerch Swashbuckler: supercalifragilistikespiralidocious is my safe word though ive really been meaning to change it
[14:46] Saffia Widdershins nods
[14:47] Jimmy Branagh: But the fact is, it was a terrible time to grow up in, even if you were in the upper classes.
[14:47] Breezy Carver nods ..
[14:47] Victor1st Mornington: yup
[14:47] Nat Merit: wouldn't want to say that in a rush...
[14:47] Myrtil Igaly: We're certainly happier here than most urchins of the period
[14:47] Richardus Raymaker: yes
[14:47] Jimmy Branagh: Children were considered small versions of adults in a large way, and were expected to behave accordingly
[14:47] Reddancer LittleBoots: That's mostly cause you dun starve or freeze to death in SL
[14:47] Sevian Ninetails: yes, everyone seems even too kind with us in this town hehe... lot of food and recovery places
[14:48] Richardus Raymaker: death is possible. freeze happy not
[14:48] Jimmy Branagh: To be an orphan in Victorian England, and living by your wits in the ghettos must have been horrible.
[14:48] Vivi Boxen: I watched oliver twist as a kid, also like those stories of young boys and girl climbing oveobservary
[14:48] Anastasio Luminos shakes off the lagdust and smiles politely as he finds his seat
[14:49] Vivi Boxen: Always liked those stories kids having great adventures
[14:49] Jimmy Branagh: Anyway, I'm glad I found this place. I've been here nearly three years now, and love it more and more.
[14:50] Jimmy Branagh: Myrtil? Ready?
[14:50] Jimmy Branagh: Wake up!
[14:50] Myrtil Igaly: Yup
[14:50] Breezy Carver smiles
[14:50] Viv Trafalgar: chuckles
[14:50] Jimmy Branagh grins
[14:50] Myrtil Igaly wakes up
[14:50] Vivi Boxen shoots mrytil's head with a slings shot "Wake up" poopie slingshot ^^
[14:50] Viv Trafalgar: Vivi!
[14:50] Lerch Swashbuckler laughs
[14:50] Myrtil Igaly: Well I've arrived here about two years ago and like Jimmy I found Babbage thanks to Loki
[14:51] Rod Zeddmore: LOKI!
[14:51] Myrtil Igaly shoots dark looks at Miss Viv, rubbinb her head
[14:51] Victor1st Mornington: awwwwwwwww
[14:51] Breezy Carver awwww ☆smiles ☆
[14:51] Myrtil Igaly: I think that most of the urchins in Babbage are directly or indirectly his doing
[14:51] Stormy Buccaneer: Ah Loki, the center of the Babbage universe, kinda liek how velma is the center of the cartoon universe
[14:51] Rod Zeddmore models a loki original
[14:51] Vivi Boxen: Don't worry i shot a piece of chocolate at Myrt#s head ^^ not poopie
[14:51] Viv Trafalgar pays attention to what Myrtil is saying
[14:52] Richardus Raymaker: vivi where did you found the chocolat ?
[14:52] Myrtil Igaly: Then I didn't know anything either about Victorian times or even Steampunk
[14:52] Lerch Swashbuckler: steampunk is what makes the victorian livable
[14:52] Vivi Boxen: on the table with the food
[14:52] Myrtil Igaly: But that was fantastic to discover it and I came to love it
[14:52] Stormy Buccaneer hands Tsulu a can of Crash begoan
[14:52] Lerch Swashbuckler: if only they had steampowered monowheels for real back then
[14:53] Tsula Foxtrot: =D
[14:53] Tsula Foxtrot: Fank you Stormy =)
[14:53] Reddancer LittleBoots clears her throat "SSssshhhhhh!"
[14:53] Myrtil Igaly: I guess being a kid in a victorian steampunk environment, I could have chosen to be any kind of victorian child
[14:53] Myrtil Igaly: but being an urchin sounded more "fun"
[14:53] Stormy Buccaneer: It's what I do, that and the whole bee thing :P
[14:53] Myrtil Igaly: I don't see a lot of upper class children around
[14:53] Jimmy Branagh: Listen up. you lot! Ya moight learn somethin!
[14:53] Myrtil Igaly: not many kids in Babbage are in family if any at all
[14:54] Rod Zeddmore: I ate em!
[14:54] Taliesin Daines: No, but some middle class
[14:54] Viv Trafalgar agrees entirely with Jimmy
[14:54] Myrtil Igaly: During the victorian era, the rich children were in big families, lots of brothers and sisters, and they were often taken care of by a nanny
[14:54] Myrtil Igaly: didn't see their parents very often
[14:54] Reddancer LittleBoots: Ya!
[14:54] Stormy Buccaneer: I think Fiona Shoreland is the richest Urchin by far :P
[14:55] Myrtil Igaly: and they had a room to play in and stuff
[14:55] Myrtil Igaly: but they also had to go to school
[14:55] Myrtil Igaly: I decided it wasn't what I wanted to play here
[14:55] Sam Ermintrood: not till they were 8 :)
[14:55] Myrtil Igaly: Now, working class children were very poor and had no toys
[14:56] Taliesin Daines: Rats are better to play with
[14:56] Myrtil Igaly: Actually from 5 to 10, school had been made obligatory Sam
[14:56] Sandi Levee: No toys?!
[14:56] Myrtil Igaly: Not fancy ones at least
[14:56] Stormy Buccaneer: they had sticks and rocks
[14:56] Myrtil Igaly: on one hand they didn't really go to school
[14:56] Sandi Levee: *blinks*
[14:56] Myrtil Igaly: but on the other hand they had to work
[14:56] Myrtil Igaly: to help their families
[14:56] Taliesin Daines: No obligatory school in England until late 19th century
[14:57] Tepic Harlequin: 1875 Education Act, i think...
[14:57] Myrtil Igaly: yup, I'm taking Babbage's time as a base Taliesin :)
[14:57] Nat Merit: isn't babbage late 19th century?
[14:57] Taliesin Daines: Yep
[14:57] Myrtil Igaly: we're around 1880 something
[14:57] Sam Ermintrood: middle class taught at home
[14:57] Nat Merit: thought so
[14:57] Taliesin Daines: All right
[14:57] Myrtil Igaly: The children in the working classes had to work to help their families
[14:57] Sam Ermintrood: until prep school at 8
[14:57] Anastasio Luminos: Ah, I'd been wondering what time period Babbage was in.
[14:57] Myrtil Igaly: but the unfair thing is that they were paid less than adults
[14:58] Myrtil Igaly: cause they were smaller
[14:58] Nat Merit: paid by height?
[14:58] Myrtil Igaly: so the factory owners thought they had to earn less
[14:58] Rod Zeddmore: I work as a speed bump
[14:58] Nat Merit makes a note to invest in a rack
[14:58] Myrtil Igaly: And many died doing those jobs
[14:58] Myrtil Igaly: yes
[14:58] Vivi Boxen: Well adults are bigger... and they could pick nus up and put us on a really high cabinets that we can't come down...
[14:58] Taliesin Daines: Then why does no-one here go to school?
[14:58] Myrtil Igaly: they worked in mines, in cotton mills
[14:58] Anastasio Luminos: Ugh...that sounds awful, Myrtil.
[14:58] Myrtil Igaly: in chimneys
[14:59] Rod Zeddmore giggles
[14:59] Myrtil Igaly: So yes, I decided I didn't want to play a working class child either
[14:59] Stormy Buccaneer: Mou-ha-ha-ha
[14:59] Nat Merit: poor triky
[14:59] Myrtil Igaly: And also I didn't want any parents
[14:59] Myrtil Igaly: so I became an orphan urchin
[14:59] Breezy Carver sad face
[14:59] Vivi Boxen: The cotton factories where bad, kids lived uner the machines picking up scraps.
[14:59] Taliesin Daines: I think we need a new school here
[14:59] Myrtil Igaly: which is the perfect most amusing way to be a kid in Babbage
[15:00] KlausWulfenbach Outlander: Sir Edward keeps talking about a proper workhouse.
[15:00] Viv Trafalgar: oh dear
[15:00] Myrtil Igaly: We beg for food, we... borrow stuff
[15:00] Taliesin Daines: Yes, that too
[15:00] Stormy Buccaneer: I agree with the school. We need one, if not for the fact we dont have one at all,.
[15:00] Vivi Boxen: ugh oh
[15:00] Jimmy Branagh: Some of the workin' kids were as young as three years old.
[15:00] Tepic Harlequin: workhouse is fer when you can't look after yerself....
[15:01] Jimmy Branagh: Yeh they helped push carts
[15:01] Myrtil Igaly: I'm kinda done, so if you have questions for any of us, I guess it's time!
[15:01] Tepic Harlequin: yep, soon as the kid can do something useful, they work....
[15:01] Sam Ermintrood: yeah they have ta be small to get under the machines
[15:01] Vivi Boxen: Yeah *raises hand*
[15:01] Viv Trafalgar: yes now we'll have questions - please say who you're directing to
[15:01] Anastasio Luminos raises his hand
[15:01] Saffia Widdershins: a Sunday school was where many working class children learned to read and write
[15:01] KlausWulfenbach Outlander: Little ones could pick up dropped parts.
[15:01] Taliesin Daines: A society should be organised for the establishment of a school
[15:01] Viv Trafalgar: and then i'll set out the craft - oh what well behaved Urchins
[15:01] Tsula Foxtrot: Fank Myrtil, Fanks Jim, Fanks Miss Saffia
[15:01] Viv Trafalgar: Vivi and then Anastasio
[15:01] Serafina Puchkina: Thank you, gentle speakers! Before we open the floor to questions for all of our speakers, I'd like to announce the February Aether Salon. We are shaking things up a bit. Miss Canolli Capalini will discuss music boxes (she makes wonderful, beautiful, exquisite music boxes) AND we will have a party to celebrate a certain person's rez day *cough* Miss Viv *cough*
[15:01] Viv Trafalgar: Thank you Jimmy ! Thank you Myrtil - very informative
[15:01] Viv Trafalgar: whoops
[15:01] Breezy Carver: we had one the children .. burned it down (( grins )) perhaps another in the spring they can build it .. ☆smiles ☆ yes thats it !! laughs ..
[15:01] Taliesin Daines: My father was a teacher, we need a school here
[15:02] Myrtil Igaly: Triky burnt it
[15:02] Vivi Boxen: What yeah was the industrial revolution where those children were forced to work?
[15:02] Myrtil Igaly: oh no wait
[15:02] Jimmy Branagh: ((Yeh, her music boxes are great!))
[15:02] Sevian Ninetails: I would like to talk too if it's possible
[15:02] Rod Zeddmore: also makes oliphants
[15:02] Jimmy Branagh: Yer welcome Miss ViV1
[15:02] Reddancer LittleBoots: Oy! Why you pinnin that on us?
[15:02] Viv Trafalgar: Got you on the list Sevian
[15:02] Reddancer LittleBoots: WE didn't start that fire
[15:02] Reddancer LittleBoots: It
[15:02] Breezy Carver: lovely child to save all of you sigh ..
[15:02] Reddancer LittleBoots: just happened
[15:02] Sandi Levee: Is there a Salon group?
[15:03] Jedburgh30 Dagger: Folks, hang on a second
[15:03] Rod Zeddmore raises his hand
[15:03] Taliesin Daines: IT was most irresponsible
[15:03] Serafina Puchkina: Vivi had a question about the Industrial Revolution, I believe
[15:03] Jasper Kiergarten: there is a salon group, yes
[15:03] Viv Trafalgar: there is! you can join by clicking on the signs outside
[15:03] Myrtil Igaly: What year you mean? I think the Industrial Revolution started around 1800
[15:03] Sandi Levee: fankies!
[15:03] Cliodna Oakleaf: are there other children in Babbage who arent urchins?
[15:03] Viv Trafalgar: VIvi will you restate your question?
[15:03] Myrtil Igaly: 1800 something
[15:03] Sandi Levee: *misses Triky*
[15:03] Vivi Boxen: Miss myYeah when did the industerial revolution, and when did the children work the cotton minds?
[15:03] Sandi Levee: *likes Pyros*
[15:04] Saffia Widdershins: It was more that children carried on working - until laws in the 1840s (largely) began to regulate what they could and couldn't do
[15:04] Jimmy Branagh: There 'ave been a few hoity-toity type kids aroun', but we don't see 'em too often.
[15:04] Taliesin Daines: Cotton mills from late 18th century onwards
[15:04] Vivi Boxen: oh right
[15:04] Serafina Puchkina: Rod, you had a question?
[15:04] Cliodna Oakleaf: hoity toity , giggles
[15:04] Saffia Widdershins: they had originally worked in the fields .... when life became industrialised, they carried on working
[15:04] Jedburgh30 Dagger: Child labor was common prior to the Industrial Revolution as well...
[15:05] Vivi Boxen: Thank you
[15:05] Saffia Widdershins: until there was a growing awareness that this was wrong
[15:05] Jimmy Branagh: Yeh, a few. Don't see them of'en either.
[15:05] PollyAnna Nightfire: its not my fault Miss Beq sends me away to go to that posh school
[15:05] Jedburgh30 Dagger: Anastasio?
[15:05] Annechen Lowey: Wolfgang rarely come out of the lab by his choice.
[15:05] Anastasio Luminos: I was just wondering, are ther any teenagers in New Babbage?
[15:05] Saffia Widdershins: I can share a couple of things that shows what conditions could be llike ...
[15:05] Viv Trafalgar: oh please do Saffia
[15:05] Vivi Boxen: Yes a few teans
[15:06] Jimmy Branagh: Yes please ma'am!
[15:06] Anastasio Luminos smiles
[15:06] Taliesin Daines: Read the novel Michael Armstrong by Frances Trollope to find out how the conditions were for children in factories in the 1830s
[15:06] Myrtil Igaly: Yes there are teens
[15:06] Saffia Widdershins: There's a song called The Testimony of Patience Kershaw
[15:06] Vivi Boxen: Will do thanks!
[15:06] Saffia Widdershins: it was taken from the evidence a child gave to a Commission into Child Labour
[15:06] Saffia Widdershins: and it is heartbreaking
[15:06] Stormy Buccaneer: We grow up so fast :P
[15:06] Anastasio Luminos: That's wonderful! I had been interested in this place for a while, but I wasn't sure if I'd fit in or not.
[15:06] Saffia Widdershins:
[15:07] Cliodna Oakleaf: where I live we had a lot of Jute mills, and I know even to the early 1900's children were used because theyre small hands could clean parts adults couldn’t
[15:07] Vivi Boxen: Thanks guys
[15:07] Jedburgh30 Dagger: the next question was severian?
[15:07] Saffia Widdershins: You can see more about the job she did - hurrying - here:
[15:08] Sevian Ninetails: it wasnt a question
[15:08] Sevian Ninetails: I would like to add some informations
[15:08] Sevian Ninetails: if I may talk
[15:08] Jedburgh30 Dagger: hang on a second
[15:09] Taliesin Daines: Wake up Nat!
[15:09] Myrtil Igaly notices Mr Cleansate is floating in the air and giggles
[15:09] Nat Merit: ?
[15:09] Jimmy Branagh: Are you done Myrtil?
[15:09] Breezy Carver: well he is gearing up for next week dear grins
[15:10] Myrtil Igaly: Been done a while ago!
[15:10] Cliodna Oakleaf: this was interesting, thankyou for doing this salon
[15:10] Rod Zeddmore raises hand
[15:10] Viv Trafalgar: Yes next week is a big week in babbage!
[15:10] Viv Trafalgar: Clidona did you get your question answered?
[15:10] Serafina Puchkina: Yes, Rod?
[15:10] Myrtil Igaly: Won't we listen to Sevian?
[15:10] Anastasio Luminos: I was hoping to hear what Sevian had to say too.
[15:10] Nat Merit three
[15:11] Cliodna Oakleaf: yes i did thank you
[15:11] Rod Zeddmore: Saffia...What book could you recommend to us people who are more familiar with contemporary works? Something that will be good and entertaining, but not bogged down in weird language we can't understand?
[15:11] Viv Trafalgar: I'm talking with Sevian about doing something longer
[15:11] Myrtil Igaly: aaah ok
[15:11] Viv Trafalgar: I'd like to hear what he has to say
[15:11] Saffia Widdershins: I would start with E Nesbit
[15:11] Anastasio Luminos smiles and nods to Viv
[15:11] Viv Trafalgar: but also get everyone's questions in
[15:11] Tepic Harlequin: good :-)
[15:11] Taliesin Daines: Yep, Nesbit is the best!
[15:12] Saffia Widdershins: Something like The Treasure Seekers
[15:12] Taliesin Daines: Wouldbegoods is also my fav
[15:12] Rod Zeddmore: thank you
[15:12] Saffia Widdershins: or if you want a touch of fantasy mixed in, The Phoenix and the Carpet
[15:13] Myrtil Igaly: Think we're done, you can start baby talking again Jimmy
[15:13] Bookworm Hienrichs snerks.
[15:13] Viv Trafalgar: oh dear now children don't fight
[15:13] Anastasio Luminos grins
[15:14] Myrtil Igaly: I'm a very nice pickle Miss Mara!
[15:14] Jimmy Branagh: Gah, my thrower's not workin'! It's Myrtil's fault!
[15:14] Serafina Puchkina: Are there any more questions for our speakers?
[15:14] Breezy Carver admires the love of the children ..
[15:14] Viv Trafalgar: I'm going to - oh my
[15:14] Sam Ermintrood: ow
[15:14] Viv Trafalgar: put out the craft
[15:14] Myrtil Igaly: HAH
[15:14] Viv Trafalgar: duck!
[15:14] Bookworm Hienrichs: Oh, my--we're in trouble now!
[15:14] Victor1st Mornington: ohhhhhhh dear....
[15:15] Serafina Puchkina: Please join us for a rez day party and to hear about music boxes. Here at 2pm slt on SATURDAY February 20. Today's craft was generously donated by Myrtil Igaly and Beq Janus.
[15:15] Violet MacMoragh: awww Bob would have loved this
[15:15] Rod Zeddmore: a toy!
[15:15] Viv Trafalgar: whoops sorry rod!
[15:15] Loki Eliot: where is bob?
[15:15] Mara Razor: has anyone heard anything about how bb is?
[15:15] Viv Trafalgar: didn't mean to drop that on you i got a snowball in my face
[15:15] Mara Razor: bob*
[15:15] Loki Eliot: im starting to worry that he is my alt
[15:15] Violet MacMoragh: he's good
[15:15] Rod Zeddmore: oh
[15:15] Violet MacMoragh: getting better
[15:15] Viv Trafalgar: I talked to bob last week - he's much better
[15:15] Rod Zeddmore: do you want it back?
[15:15] Myrtil Igaly: He is??
[15:15] Viv Trafalgar: oh thank you Vi! HI!
[15:15] Mara Razor: you have an alt loki?
[15:16] Mara Razor: when's he coming back
[15:16] Mara Razor: myrtil don't point that gun at people
[15:16] Violet MacMoragh: he has been on here and there
[15:16] Violet MacMoragh blows kisses to Viv
[15:16] Tepic Harlequin: is Sevian going to speak?
[15:16] Serafina Puchkina: You can also take copies of the books Miss Saffia mentioned over here
[15:16] Anastasio Luminos: I have to run. It was a pleasure meeting everyone. :)
[15:16] Myrtil Igaly: But there's people everywhere
[15:16] Mara Razor: ♕ Maraa Yuhuu ♕
[15:16] Mara Razor: well tell him that miss misses him terribly
[15:16] Jimmy Branagh: Thanks for coming Everyone!
[15:16] Serafina Puchkina: Thanks for coming anastasio
[15:16] Sam Ermintrood: bye ana
[15:16] Tsula Foxtrot: Yea Fanks
[15:16] Stargirl Macbain claps
[15:16] Serafina Puchkina: Congratulations speakers! This was wonderful!
[15:17] Bookworm Hienrichs applauds.
[15:17] Serafina Puchkina claps
[15:17] Anastasio Luminos waves to everyone as he runs off on an errand
[15:17] Taliesin Daines applauds
[15:17] Reliable Barthelmess applauds
[15:17] Breezy Carver: YAY!
[15:17] Gilhooly Skute applauds
[15:17] Nat Merit does too
[15:17] Viv Trafalgar: Thank you anastasio -- she says slightly rumpled and unnerved
[15:17] Sandi Levee: ♥ Pop ♥
[15:17] Rod Zeddmore: my library system doesn't catty the wouldbegoods
[15:17] Viv Trafalgar: phew!
[15:17] Breezy Carver: ✰·.·´` Claps Very Loudly!! ´`·.·✰
[15:17] Sandi Levee: Applause!!
[15:17] Rod Zeddmore: evil library
[15:17] Violet MacMoragh cheers!
[15:17] Myrtil Igaly: Sevian, will you be talking at another salon?
[15:17] Sevian Ninetails: looks so
[15:17] Alaex Aeon Applauds
[15:17] Myrtil Igaly: Yay!!
[15:17] Anastasio Luminos actually sloggs through havy lagg...
[15:18] Taliesin Daines: The Woulldbegoods is the sequel to the Treasure Seekers
[15:18] Jimmy Branagh applauds Miss Saffia!
[15:18] Gilhooly Skute: gotta go... bye Mara, Red, Tsula, I'll visit Steel'ead soon
[15:18] Stargirl Macbain: Bye Gilly!
[15:18] Serafina Puchkina: I will be posting a transcript of today's Salon tomorrow
[15:18] Myrtil Igaly: See ya Gil!
[15:18] Stargirl Macbain: Oh! Come by if you can catch me without Pip around Gill.
[15:18] Gilhooly Skute: oh aye, I will
[15:18] PollyAnna Nightfire: Miss Beq! Tis boo has m in it You ever sid. That's exploitation tha is
[15:18] Stargirl Macbain: Thank you dear.
[15:19] Taliesin Daines: Thank you Ms.Puchkina for a transcript
[15:19] Viv Trafalgar: i'll be giving the speakers fund to the speakers in about a minute
[15:19] Viv Trafalgar: The transcript this week is going to be a bear
[15:19] Bookworm Hienrichs chuckles.
[15:19] Viv Trafalgar: everyone be very nice to Serafina
[15:19] Jimmy Branagh: Good job Myrtil!
[15:19] Sandi Levee: Tank you for da present Viv!
[15:20] Tepic Harlequin: time fer me to check the traps, take care everyone!
[15:20] Jimmy Branagh: Oy'm gonna grab me some books!
[15:20] Mara Razor: well, i'd say all the urchins can come back to the hostel for treats, but ummm....
[15:20] Nat Merit: bye tepic
[15:20] Richardus Raymaker: bye tepic
[15:20] Nat Merit: good luck with the voles
[15:20] Jimmy Branagh: Byee Tepic!
[15:20] Myrtil Igaly: well we're just sidekicks really
[15:20] Saffia Widdershins: heh
[15:20] Sandi Levee: treats?!
[15:20] Stargirl Macbain: You could bring the Urchins to my house Mara...don't know how many treats I have, but i've got soup.
[15:20] Violet MacMoragh: alright I have ironclads to smash...or really get was lovely to see you all!
[15:20] Vivi Boxen: BACK crashed
[15:20] Reliable Barthelmess: Treats?
[15:20] KlausWulfenbach Outlander: Frau Mara, they're welcome at the Consulate offices, too, spread out the snacking.
[15:20] Sandi Levee: Soup!
[15:20] Serafina Puchkina: Thank you all for coming
[15:21] Reliable Barthelmess looks at the cake table
[15:21] Mara Razor: we could go to ruby's - that's where the supper for scamps started
[15:21] Vivi Boxen: Hey ro leave ma tai alone
[15:21] Sandi Levee: Supper?
[15:21] Rod Zeddmore: ken we go to mcdonalds?
[15:21] Mara Razor: where's mcdonalds?
[15:21] Sandi Levee: Yeah, Rod could be a speed bump there!
[15:21] Rod Zeddmore: mmm ratburger
[15:21] Myrtil Igaly: Hello Red!
[15:21] Taliesin Daines: Thank you very much Ms. Widdershins for your delightful presentation
[15:21] Mara Razor covers gilly's ears!
[15:22] Reddancer LittleBoots: Hoy Myrtil
[15:22] Victor1st Mornington: right, im off back to brunel hall to finish the founders day bunting....thanks for the great presentations folks :)
[15:22] Myrtil Igaly: How have you been lately?
[15:22] Reddancer LittleBoots: Been alright
[15:22] Mara Razor loos at koen, "hi i'm miss mara"
[15:22] Stargirl Macbain: Good luck Victor! I don't envey you all that bunting....
[15:22] Viv Trafalgar: if the speakers will come over for a moment?
[15:22] Reddancer LittleBoots: been off playin with Willow and Tsu
[15:22] Myrtil Igaly: In the mines?
[15:22] Reddancer LittleBoots: really nice to see everyone
[15:22] Koen Kerang: Founders...Day?
[15:22] Mara Razor hugs red
[15:23] Reddancer LittleBoots: ^^
[15:23] Jimmy Branagh: Where are you Miss Viv?
[15:23] Jedburgh30 Dagger: Speakers, please go see Viv
[15:23] Reddancer LittleBoots hugs Miss Mara
[15:23] Annechen Lowey waves and departs.
[15:23] Vivi Boxen: Heya Mara
[15:23] Saffia Widdershins: Thank you, Herr varon for the book!
[15:23] Serafina Puchkina: Good night everyone!
[15:23] Rod Zeddmore: thatnks for the session
[15:23] Rod Zeddmore: byebye
[15:23] KlausWulfenbach Outlander: It has special properties, Fraulein Widdershins.
[15:23] KlausWulfenbach Outlander: You can use it to correct errant staff as well as raise boys.
[15:23] Vivi Boxen: hey miss Mara
[15:23] Myrtil Igaly: So who wanna become an urchin now?
[15:24] Stargirl Macbain: Pip!
[15:24] Stargirl Macbain smiles warmly.
[15:24] Pip Steamer: allo miss Star
[15:24] Vivi Boxen: Hello
[15:24] Nat Merit: join us ;)
[15:24] Viv Trafalgar: thank you all so much!
[15:24] Reliable Barthelmess: Hello Star
[15:24] Saffia Widdershins laughs
[15:24] Viv Trafalgar: this was brilliant!
[15:24] Saffia Widdershins: I shall study it carefully!
[15:25] Soxshui Zerbino smiles
[15:25] Stargirl Macbain: Hello Miss Barthelmess, hav eyou met Mr Underby's H....Assistant?
[15:25] Sandi Levee: Hey Pip, what's a Hob?
[15:25] Jimmy Branagh: Ah, you became all invisible for a bit, Miss Viv.
[15:25] Jasper Kiergarten: excellent job speakers!
[15:25] Reliable Barthelmess shakes her head
[15:25] Vivi Boxen: pip pip cheerio hehe like that name
[15:25] KlausWulfenbach Outlander: I must be off. Splendid Salon as always.
[15:25] Pip Steamer: it's a wee man
[15:25] KlausWulfenbach Outlander lifts a hand in farewell and relocates
[15:25] Mara Razor: boris?
[15:25] Reliable Barthelmess stares
[15:25] Jimmy Branagh: Night Herr Baron!
[15:25] Mara Razor: a hob is like brownie

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