[13:58] Bookworm Hienrichs: We'll be starting in a few minutes. We always wait for stragglers.
[13:58] Bookworm Hienrichs smiles.
[13:58] Steadman Kondor beams, i cant wait to hear about this criminal topic!
[13:58] Garnet Psaltery: Hello Ceejay
[13:58] Bookworm Hienrichs: Ceejay! Good to see you!
[13:58] Avariel Falcon: No Babbager left behind!
[13:59] Avariel Falcon: Except that strange guy with the wibbly arms
[13:59] Ceejay Writer: Ahoy all!
[13:59] Avariel Falcon nods
[13:59] Garnet Psaltery: hehe
[13:59] Emerson Lighthouse: oh, hey Ceejay
[13:59] Tepic Harlequin: ah
[13:59] Zantabraxus (zantabraxus.aristocarnas): Greetings, Ceejay *smiles*
[13:59] Ceejay Writer: Emmie! Good to see you!
[13:59] Zantabraxus (zantabraxus.aristocarnas): Wonderful to see you
[13:59] Tepic Harlequin: ah! Miss Vi! could be interesting!
[14:00] Garnet Psaltery: Hey Lia :o)
[14:00] Bookworm Hienrichs: Welcome, Miss Lia!
[14:00] VI (violet.solano): good afternoon all
[14:00] Ceejay Writer: Apologies to those still rezzing to my eyes, pardon my feet.
[14:00] Lia Venuto (venra.aries): =D
[14:00] Bookworm Hienrichs: Miss Solano...
[14:00] VI (violet.solano): and Hienrichs
[14:00] Jimmy Branagh noted the tip jar is bigger than Tepic
[14:00] Garnet Psaltery: hehe
[14:00] Bookworm Hienrichs laughs.
[14:00] Myrtil Igaly: hehehe
[14:00] Avariel Falcon: ^_^
[14:01] Tepic Harlequin: Mr Sir Sir Emerson, there is a seat for yer in the middle!
[14:01] Avariel Falcon: It is a sizeable tip jar indeed!
[14:01] Garnet Psaltery: Expecting trouble, Garth?
[14:01] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander): If anyone needs a chair, speak up.
[14:01] Myrtil Igaly: You're talking of the little stools right in front?
[14:01] Tepic Harlequin: yep :-)
[14:01] Emerson Lighthouse eyes the seating arrangements
[14:01] Emerson Lighthouse: I'm good here, Tepic
[14:01] Avariel Falcon: The floor is quite comfortable
[14:01] Jimmy Branagh chuckles
[14:01] Avariel Falcon nods
[14:01] Beryl Strifeclaw (gager): As always
[14:02] Ceejay Writer: Got me best proppin-cane, I'm good!
[14:02] Bookworm Hienrichs: Welcome, Miss Zee!
[14:02] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander): Alas, I have no equine chairs anyway.
[14:02] Darlingmonster Ember: careful Prof... we have folks sitting on the floor too
[14:02] Avariel Falcon: Hello there feathery dinosaur
[14:02] Tepic Harlequin: strange how no one wants ter sit there....
[14:02] VI (violet.solano): if Hienrichs offers me a chair i'd expect it would have wires
[14:02] Garnet Psaltery chortles
[14:02] Steadman Kondor: like an electric chair?
[14:02] Steadman Kondor: hehe
[14:03] Bookworm Hienrichs: Now, now. I wouldn't want to put people off with the smell of burned fur.
[14:03] Bookworm Hienrichs smiles sweetly.
[14:03] Bookworm Hienrichs: ((We just can't resist, can we?))
[14:03] Zsophia Innovia is looking for ideas for dealing with my teens
[14:03] Myrtil Igaly: You're at the right talk!
[14:03] VI (violet.solano): ((no))
[14:03] Cpt. Clark Sideswipe (clarksideswipe): Aye, and unruly dinosaur crewmates!
[14:04] Bookworm Hienrichs: Well, I think we'll get started now!
[14:04] Bookworm Hienrichs: Welcome, one and all, to this month's Aether Salon! Today, New Babbage's own Tepic Harlequin will regale us with tales of Punishment in Victorian times.
[14:04] Bookworm Hienrichs: Before we get started, a few housekeeping items:
[14:04] Bookworm Hienrichs: 1) To ensure you can hear the speaker, stand or sit on the patterned carpet.
[14:04] Bookworm Hienrichs: 2) If you do not have a wearable chair and wish one, please contact myself or the Baron.
[14:05] Myrtil Igaly: Or sit on one of the stools
[14:05] Bookworm Hienrichs grins.
[14:05] Bookworm Hienrichs: 3) Please remove all lag-feeding whatevers you might be wearing.
[14:05] Bookworm Hienrichs: 4) A tip jar is out for our speaker. Do please show your appreciation!
[14:05] Bookworm Hienrichs: 5) Any tips to help support the establishment will also be welcome - just click on one of the support signs!
[14:05] Bookworm Hienrichs: 6) If you're not a member of the AEther Salon group, there are signs that will let you join up. You'll be most heartily welcome!
[14:05] Bookworm Hienrichs: 7) Edited and unedited transcripts of these proceedings will be posted at aethersalon.blogspot.com.
[14:06] Joyus Sohl: <---- poor connection I guess. badly lagged. .. will have to go . sorry
[14:06] Joyus Sohl: crashing
[14:06] Garnet Psaltery waves to Wildstar
[14:06] Bookworm Hienrichs: Sorry to hear that, Miss Sohl!
[14:06] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander): Ach.
[14:06] Bookworm Hienrichs: And now, to introduce our speaker. Though Tepic Harlequin doesn't need much of an introduction for New Babbagers.
[14:06] Wildstar Beaumont: greetings everybody
[14:06] Bookworm Hienrichs: He's been a fixture here for several years, checking his vole traps, running his urchin tavern, and generally making mischief.
[14:06] Steadman Kondor: hallo mr wildstar :)
[14:06] Bookworm Hienrichs: Though he's never actually been caught, I'm not surprised that he knows all about punishments for crimes. *wink*
[14:06] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander) chuckles
[14:07] Bookworm Hienrichs: Please welcome him to our stage!
[14:07] Jimmy Branagh applauds loudly
[14:07] Zsophia Innovia smirks
[14:07] Steadman Kondor claps :D
[14:07] Avariel Falcon: ♫ ((( Yay! Applause! Yay! ))) ♪
[14:07] Lady Sumoku claps
[14:07] Darlingmonster Ember applauds
[14:07] Jimmy Branagh: YAY! Tepic!
[14:07] Garnet Psaltery applauds
[14:07] Ceejay Writer applauds
[14:07] Wulfriðe Blitzen (ancasta): Applause!
[14:07] Darlingmonster Ember applauds
[14:07] Myrtil Igaly applauds applauds
[14:07] Emerson Lighthouse whistles for Tepic
[14:07] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander) applauds
[14:07] Stereo Nacht: Good evening Herr Baron, Queen Zantabraxus, Ms. Hienricshs, Ms. Ember, Mr. Lighthouse, Miss Igaly, Ms. Innovia, Mr. Goode, Captain Sideswipe, Ms. Falcon, Mr. Beryl, Ms. Writer, Ms. Blitzen, Ms. Sumoku, Mr. Mornington and everyone!
[14:07] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander): Fraulein Stereo.
[14:07] Garnet Psaltery: Hello Stereo
[14:07] Myrtil Igaly: 'ello Miss Stereo!
[14:07] Tepic Harlequin: Good evening, Ladies an Gents of the Jury.... errrr.... audience... and the rest of yer all as well!
[14:07] Wulfriðe Blitzen (ancasta): Abend, Frl. Nacht
[14:07] Darlingmonster Ember winks at Cpt Stereo
[14:07] Emerson Lighthouse waves to Miss Stereo
[14:07] Bookworm Hienrichs laughs.
[14:07] Jimmy Branagh waves to Capt Stereo
[14:07] Tepic Harlequin: Actually, since this talk is about punishment, it's a bit late to be addressing the jury, that bit's over and done with and now yer going to have to live with the consequences!
[14:08] Zsophia Innovia: good evening Miss Nacht
[14:08] Avariel Falcon: ^_^
[14:08] Vic Mornington (victor1st.mornington): :D *waves*
[14:08] Tepic Harlequin: But what would they be, what is your unfortunate fate to come? Well, here in our fair City it works quite nicely, we have laws but little enforcement, much of our justice depends on what the individual can administer.
[14:08] Tepic Harlequin: In some other places they have it much more organised, and we will be looking at how they have done it in that far off land, Britain over the past century - we are in the 189xs so i'm talking from 1800 up to the present day.
[14:09] Wildstar Beaumont wonders what other forms of punishment are there beside 40 lashes when tied to the mast ... at full discretion of the captain, of course
[14:09] Ceejay Writer grins at Wildstar
[14:09] Tepic Harlequin: an you will notice, me spelling is British too, so when it shows up all read, that's why!
[14:09] Stereo Nacht: Cleaning all decks with your own underwear? ;-)
[14:10] Garnet Psaltery: eep
[14:10] Lady Sumoku: Cleaning decks with Wildstar's underwear?
[14:10] Tepic Harlequin: an Nr Beaumont is right, sea punishment is very harsh....
[14:10] Zsophia Innovia: oh dear.
[14:10] Ceejay Writer: Keelhauling/
[14:10] Garnet Psaltery waves to Avalon
[14:11] Tepic Harlequin: but tonight we will be looking at the land borne system :-)
[14:11] Tepic Harlequin: We've all read about how awful it was, how yer could be hung for stealing a crust of bread and yes, it punishment has been harsh, but there are a lot of misconceptions that people truly believe. Lets have a look at some, starting with.... hanging!
[14:11] Doctor Avalon (avalonalpha): waves and sneaks in ..
[14:11] Jimmy Branagh gulps and cracks his neck loudly
[14:11] Stereo Nacht waves back at Dr. Avalon
[14:11] Tepic Harlequin: Oh, grim it is, just look at the scaffold i am standing on, a typical example of a short drop scaffold, used in most places up until 1874 when the long drop replaced it completely. The short drop was awful as you strangled slowly, very nasty.
[14:11] Garth Goode hopes there won't be demonstrations and calls for volunteers.
[14:12] Tepic Harlequin: But hanging was not all that common. At the beginning of the century you could be sentenced to hang for over 200 crimes, some of them very minor, and there was great public unrest about the number of hangings for petty crime such as pick pocketing or stealing food.
[14:13] Ceejay Writer: 200!
[14:13] Myrtil Igaly: uho...
[14:13] Garnet Psaltery: Poor people's crimes
[14:13] Tepic Harlequin: oh, treason and arson in Her Magesty's Shipyards were one the list too!
[14:13] Tepic Harlequin: Oddly, public hangings were good venues for pick pockets!
[14:14] Garnet Psaltery: heh
[14:14] Zsophia Innovia: hee
[14:14] Tepic Harlequin: which was a hanging offence......
[14:14] Stereo Nacht: "Culling the herd", I guess. Not that I would think that myself; they make good minions! ;-)
[14:14] Jimmy Branagh chckles
[14:14] Tepic Harlequin: In 1823 the list of Capital crimes were reduced by over 100 by Sir Robert Peel, which just goes to show he wasn't all bad, despite inventing the police. By 1830 horse theft and housebreaking were also removed from the list.
[14:14] Ceejay Writer: The irony of picking a pocket at a hanging...
[14:15] Tepic Harlequin: Then, in 1868 all hangings were in private, inside the prison walls, removing the threat of civil unrest and removing a good event for local tradesmen, who were in the habit of selling souvenirs to the watching crowd.
[14:15] Stereo Nacht: Souvenirs?
[14:15] Garnet Psaltery: Teeth
[14:15] Lady Sumoku: The invention of the bobble-head!
[14:16] Stereo Nacht: Eep!
[14:16] Zsophia Innovia: ick
[14:16] Darlingmonster Ember: winces
[14:16] Avariel Falcon: O_o
[14:16] Emerson Lighthouse snickers at Lady Sumoku
[14:16] Wulfriðe Blitzen (ancasta) thumps Lady
[14:16] Tepic Harlequin: Yep, including written copies of the prisoner's last speach and lengths of the rope used to hang him or her....
[14:16] Lady Sumoku: Ow!
[14:17] Stereo Nacht: I'll pass, thank you!
[14:17] Tepic Harlequin: So everyone was hung then? Wrong! Most sentences to hang were recorded as being given, then commuted to some other punishment. Over 60% of recorded Capital convictions were commuted.
[14:17] Emerson Lighthouse: I would give the longest speech ever if it was me
[14:17] Stereo Nacht: (Unless it was a real good "I'll be back! Muhahaha" speech.)
[14:17] Tepic Harlequin: How many people do you thing were actually hung between 1800 and 1900? I know we ain't reached 1900 yet, but have a guess!
[14:17] Ceejay Writer: "I'd like to read from War and Peace, if I may..."
[14:17] Garnet Psaltery: 365
[14:17] Tepic Harlequin: in Britain, that is.....
[14:17] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander) chuckles at Fraulein Ceejay.
[14:18] Wulfriðe Blitzen (ancasta): Heh
[14:18] Emerson Lighthouse: alot of people who couldn't bribe the hangman, I'd guess
[14:18] Jimmy Branagh: "Chapter One: In the beginning ..."
[14:18] Zsophia Innovia: or tried an failed
[14:18] Stereo Nacht: Hm. I'll up Ms. Garnet. 500?
[14:19] Myrtil Igaly: 700!
[14:19] Emerson Lighthouse: 952
[14:19] Avariel Falcon: 1000!
[14:19] Garnet Psaltery: Bloodthirsty lot
[14:19] Jimmy Branagh: 4000
[14:19] Myrtil Igaly: hehe
[14:19] Avariel Falcon: 8000!
[14:19] Emerson Lighthouse looks at Jimmy
[14:19] Tepic Harlequin: hmmm....... a low guess from everyone, considering the flims and books we see!
[14:19] Ceejay Writer: umpteen jillion
[14:19] Emerson Lighthouse: 4001
[14:19] Jimmy Branagh: hehe
[14:19] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander): Hallo, Nika.
[14:19] Stereo Nacht: Good evening Miss Thought-Werk!
[14:19] Beryl Strifeclaw (gager): 150000
[14:19] Tepic Harlequin: Records show that during the century 3524 people were hanged, of which 1353 were hanged for murder. (As a comparison, over 14,000 people were reported murdered during 2012 in the US).
[14:19] Ceejay Writer: Allo allo Miss Nika!
[14:19] Avariel Falcon: 1000000!
[14:19] Garth Goode: I went to a hanging and all I got was this lousy t-shirt
[14:19] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander): Not many at all.
[14:19] Beryl Strifeclaw (gager): Heh, added a zero by accident
[14:19] Zantabraxus (zantabraxus.aristocarnas): Greetings, Nika *smiles*
[14:20] Ceejay Writer: That's.... a lot of murders.
[14:20] Emerson Lighthouse: I like Avariel's bid
[14:20] Dar (darellion.aurotharius): @garth hehe
[14:20] Zsophia Innovia: O,O
[14:20] Jimmy Branagh: Hey I was close. What do I win?
[14:20] Garnet Psaltery: A reprimand
[14:20] Myrtil Igaly: The right to sit on the stool
[14:20] Tepic Harlequin: a spell in the stocks, Jimmy!
[14:20] Nika Thought-werk (robotnika) curtsies and hurries toward the back of the chamber.
[14:20] Stereo Nacht pecks Mr. Goode's ankle: "Now, that is low. T-shirts didn't exist then."
[14:20] Tepic Harlequin: The youngest person hanged was 14. John Any Bird Bell was executed on 1st August 1831 for the murder of a 13 year old boy. There are reports of younger children being hanged, but either the sentence was commuted or the age appears incorrect - 19 being written as 9, for example.
[14:20] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander): I think you would have to compare the figures proportionally to the population.
[14:20] Jimmy Branagh: Oh, well in thet case Oy donate me proize ta charity!
[14:20] Ceejay Writer: Any Bird!!!
[14:20] Wulfriðe Blitzen (ancasta) raises her hand for a moment
[14:21] Tepic Harlequin: a question?
[14:21] Bookworm Hienrichs laughs at Jimmy.
[14:21] Wulfriðe Blitzen (ancasta): When the London Museum excavated one of the former gaol graveyards, the youngest hanging victim was sadly....1o.
[14:21] Garnet Psaltery: Oh dear
[14:22] Darlingmonster Ember waves to Nika
[14:22] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander) notices the tipping and thinks we have to go gorier next season.
[14:22] Stereo Nacht: Ow.
[14:22] Tepic Harlequin: You are correct, before 1800 there were younger victims of the hangman
[14:22] Wulfriðe Blitzen (ancasta) nods
[14:22] Wildstar Beaumont grins @ the Baron
[14:22] Zsophia Innovia: oh dear
[14:23] Zsophia Innovia: hanging scamps
[14:23] Tepic Harlequin: however, according to official records, John Bell was the youngest in the 1800s
[14:23] Tepic Harlequin: During the century, around 64 people of 19 or under were hanged.
[14:23] Darlingmonster Ember: ((Gor next season.... scribbles a note))
[14:23] Garth Goode: Or sexier... Fifty Shades of Brass and such.
[14:23] Garnet Psaltery: o.O
[14:23] Dar (darellion.aurotharius): hmm?
[14:23] Emerson Lighthouse: I don't like hangmen, they are surly
[14:23] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander) snorts
[14:24] Dar (darellion.aurotharius): gor? brass?
[14:24] Stereo Nacht: ("Gore", Ms. Ember, not "Gor"! :-P )
[14:24] Tepic Harlequin: and the Baron, is correct, population does need to be taken into account....
[14:24] Stereo Nacht: (Please? O.O )
[14:24] Garth Goode: Gor, ha!
[14:24] Tepic Harlequin: The population was much smaller of course, though during the century it grew enormously. The number of crimes committed grew at an even faster rate than the population, mainly due to the boom of industrial slums and city living. The increase in crime was of great concern to the public, and there was a demand for better punishment even though hanging was going out of favour for minor crimes.
[14:25] Tepic Harlequin: So, what happened to everyone else? Well, we know from books and those new fangled pictures the Lumier bothers are showing that anyone not given a hemp neck tie was shoved on a boat and transported to the other side of the world, Australia!
[14:25] Emerson Lighthouse: every hangman I've ever drank with has had foul BO
[14:25] Tepic Harlequin: Errrr.... well.... actually, that's not quite true.....
[14:25] Tepic Harlequin: Transportation was used in the early part of the century, and a lot of people were sent off to work in various colonies, including America, South Africa, the West Indies (this was a very effective death sentence due to the diseases there), and of course, Australia.
[14:26] Stereo Nacht: Where the spiders are deadly...
[14:26] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander): And the snakes, and the marsupials...
[14:26] Garnet Psaltery: Not to mention Australians
[14:26] Tepic Harlequin: These colonies needed labour, and the transportees were a valuable resource in opening up new territories. However, by the middle of the century transportation had virtually died out, due to the expense of sending large numbers of prisoners a long way, but mainly because the colonies refused to take any more convicts.
[14:26] Ceejay Writer shudders
[14:27] Stereo Nacht: (Careful, Ms. Psatery; we may have a few Australian visitors...)
[14:27] Tepic Harlequin: You had to be sentenced to 7 years or more to be transported, and it is very interesting to note that lists of transportees, particularly younger ones, show this to be the usual sentence.
[14:27] Emerson Lighthouse tiptoes out with a wave and a thank you to Tepic
[14:27] Garnet Psaltery: (heehee - that's for Edward when he reads this)
[14:27] Tepic Harlequin: Oddly, for young people, transportation was seen not only as a punishment but also as a way of giving them a new start in life, taking them out of their bad environment, working them to establish a good work ethic and maybe giving them a trade.
[14:28] Bookworm Hienrichs nods.
[14:28] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander): Also more likely to survive the trip?
[14:28] Ceejay Writer: Interesting to hear a positive aspect
[14:28] Wulfriðe Blitzen (ancasta): Some of the children were given a chance to work on a ship.
[14:28] Tepic Harlequin: There was also a change in how people were transported, from being chained in large numbers on early voyages, without ever seeing anything for months except the lower decks, to the later ships which tended to have few professional crew, paying passengers, and the convicts were expected to work as unpaid crew.
[14:30] Tepic Harlequin: Well, we still had the good old pillory and the stocks, that used to sort out the miscreants!
[14:30] Bookworm Hienrichs chuckles.
[14:31] Tepic Harlequin: and if anyone would like to try out the stocks, there are two sets to fit all sizes in the middle of the floor!
[14:31] Lady Sumoku: Except horse, probably.
[14:31] Jimmy Branagh gets the camera ready ...
[14:31] Zsophia Innovia: I would have to show my anklesO.O
[14:31] Avariel Falcon: ^_^
[14:31] VI (violet.solano): i'll pass thank you
[14:31] Tepic Harlequin: yes... horses.... hmmm....
[14:31] Stereo Nacht: But not tinies, I am sure! :-P
[14:31] Steadman Kondor: :) share some pix later please!
[14:31] Beryl Strifeclaw (gager): My legs kind of didn't fit, bent under the stocks
[14:31] Tepic Harlequin: Ah, yes..... well... the pillory was abolished in 1837, having been used only for perjury or subordination (don't ask what that means!), and the stocks, although being used until 1872, had been used less and less often.
[14:31] Avariel Falcon: Horses could be put to work on a wheel
[14:31] Ceejay Writer: I have a thick neck. Would hate to break the equipment.
[14:31] Cpt. Clark Sideswipe (clarksideswipe): Thankfully, raptor talons slice right through them. I regards to property damage, I will pass...
[14:32] Avariel Falcon nods
[14:32] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander): Excuses, excuses.
[14:32] Bookworm Hienrichs: Ahh, all things pass.
[14:32] Tepic Harlequin: sit on the stool to experience the stocks :-)
[14:32] Garnet Psaltery: hehe
[14:32] Avariel Falcon: Yay!
[14:33] Lady Sumoku: Poor Vic!
[14:33] Avariel Falcon: Goaty legs well secured!
[14:33] Ceejay Writer: Everyone tickle his hooves NOW
[14:33] Vic Mornington (victor1st.mornington): LOL
[14:33] Garnet Psaltery: hehehe
[14:33] Avariel Falcon: Very well done!
[14:33] VI (violet.solano): now why does victor look at home there?
[14:33] Avariel Falcon: ^_^
[14:33] Lady Sumoku runs up and tickles Jimmy and Vic
[14:33] Vic Mornington (victor1st.mornington): :o
[14:33] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander) chuckles
[14:33] Myrtil Igaly: Doesn't look that harsh!
[14:33] Bookworm Hienrichs: You need a teeny tiny pair of stocks for Thumper.
[14:33] Garnet Psaltery: Oh no poor Thumper
[14:33] Vic Mornington (victor1st.mornington): run thumper run!!!
[14:33] Avariel Falcon: Thats because we don't have rotten fruit!
[14:33] Myrtil Igaly: Oh
[14:33] Beryl Strifeclaw (gager): Poor Jimmy
[14:33] Avariel Falcon: Or slop buckets
[14:34] Stereo Nacht: Well, Mr. Branagh, I am not surprised, but Mr. Mornington? What have to done to get that sentence? o.O
[14:34] Tepic Harlequin: there are free gifts of stocks and scaffold in the barrel by the coffee for after the talk....
[14:34] Cpt. Clark Sideswipe (clarksideswipe): Tickle.. ye say?
[14:34] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander): Oh, what has he not done.
[14:34] Stereo Nacht: Hm. Do I have a tomato thrower? ;-)
[14:34] Bookworm Hienrichs laughs.
[14:34] Lady Sumoku: He let a participle dangle.
[14:34] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander): Excellent, Herr Tepic.
[14:34] Tepic Harlequin: Oh..... how about flogging, we know that was used all the time...
[14:34] Vic Mornington (victor1st.mornington): :o
[14:34] Myrtil Igaly: That killed Jimmy!
[14:34] Garnet Psaltery: *gasp*
[14:34] Avariel Falcon: Oh dear
[14:34] Tepic Harlequin: oooppppssss....
[14:34] Tepic Harlequin: Actually, flogging, in the form of whipping or birching was used throughout the century, though public flogging was abolished in 1830. It was used more commonly in the armed forces where a more brutal form of punishment was seen as essential to keeping the forces in order.
[14:34] Myrtil Igaly: Did you send him off to Australia?
[14:35] Lady Sumoku: Too many raptors running loose in the 1800s
[14:35] Tepic Harlequin: Only males over the age of 14 could be whipped, which was done by a regulation cat-o-nine tails. There were strict guidelines to the composition and construction of the whip, none of that knotted ends or bits of glass stuff!
[14:36] Darlingmonster Ember: wince
[14:36] Vic Mornington (victor1st.mornington): :o
[14:36] Stereo Nacht: Welcome back Mr. Branagh!
[14:36] Tepic Harlequin: Anyone could be birched, with again strict regulations as to the birch that was used. It was usually only used on juveniles, and was seen as a humiliating punishment.
[14:36] Stereo Nacht: Has the Baron paid your bail? ;-)
[14:36] Garnet Psaltery: Apparently this pose is 'Bored'
[14:36] Steadman Kondor sniggers
[14:36] Myrtil Igaly: Welcome back Jimmy!
[14:36] Lady Sumoku: We've lost Wulfi too
[14:36] Darlingmonster Ember: ((if only the Scots had not invented flogging... we would not have all those country clubs today))
[14:36] Jimmy Branagh: Them's stocks is dangerous!
[14:36] Garnet Psaltery snores
[14:36] Tepic Harlequin: There were also regulations to cover the birching of offenders by the Police for offences too trivial to take to Court, and these ad hoc punishments, though they would have to be recorded in the Officer's notebook, would not make the Court records.
[14:37] Steadman Kondor: how young is a juvenile?
[14:37] Tepic Harlequin: usually 14 or under
[14:37] Steadman Kondor frowns
[14:37] Tepic Harlequin: We have looked at some of the punishments we all thought were used, so what actually happened to the poor souls who were convicted?
[14:38] Tepic Harlequin: From the beginning of the century, imprisonment was increasingly being used as punishment, where previously it have only been where you waited for your punishment. I am excluding Debtor's Prisons from this talk, as they are a weird thread in absurdity, what we will look at is criminal prisons.
[14:38] Tepic Harlequin: Initially, prisoners had to buy their own food and other goods, with the strange situation that some were let out to beg by the prison gates. All the prisoners were mixed together, men, women and children, often in overcrowded, filthy and unhygienic conditions.
[14:38] Bookworm Hienrichs: Oof.
[14:39] Darlingmonster Ember: ohmy
[14:39] Tepic Harlequin: It was quite clear to the powers that be that the system was not working, so new ideas had to be tried. By the middle of the century, 90 new prisons had been build, usually on one of two model designs. They had separate accommodations for men, women and children, were clean (by the standards of the time), had sanitation, clear rules and set menus.
[14:39] Nika Thought-werk (robotnika): /mw cocks her head and blinks.
[14:40] Stereo Nacht: Don't worry, Miss Thought-Werk. Clockworks would not be sent to prison.
[14:40] Tepic Harlequin: The conditions, including the menus, were deliberately not good, to show the prisoner they were being punished, and to show the public that criminals were not being treated better than they were (this is still a common misconception!).
[14:40] Nika Thought-werk (robotnika) shakes her head "I didn't do it."
[14:40] Steadman Kondor: i wonder if master tepic will cover prisons like the marshallsea in little dorrit
[14:41] Jimmy Branagh: Now they live in country clubs
[14:41] Jimmy Branagh: At taxpayer expense
[14:41] Steadman Kondor: oh! pardon excluded, i see you noted earlier
[14:42] Tepic Harlequin: :-) Mr Dickens was quite prolific as to the state of the poor, and had spent considerable time in Debtor's Prison when a child
[14:42] Tepic Harlequin: One prison asked it's trustees to reduce the quality of the menu as it was being compared favourably with the local Workhouse, but after consideration and an investigation this was turned down, the investigator reporting that inmates would most definatly prefer the Workhouse.
[14:42] Tepic Harlequin: On a side note, the Workhouse is a much misunderstood institution. It too was deliberately hard, but was a last resort for it's inmates, who had to apply to get in!
[14:42] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander): Food punishment.
[14:43] Lady Sumoku: Not just tomatoes in the face anymore
[14:43] Tepic Harlequin: The reformers who had stated the whole idea of a new punishment system were certainly not the woolly headed liberals some of the old guard portrayed them as. They intended the system to rehabilitate the criminal, and set about designing ways in which to effect the change.
[14:43] Zsophia Innovia: rather in stomache
[14:43] Tepic Harlequin: Hard labour was an integral part of the new prisons, mostly pointless, repetitive hard graft, such as the treadmill or crank. Both had to be turned a certain number of times a day or a punishment would be applied. This could be a bread and water diet (rather than the bread, water, and a few other things that made up the main menu) or other restrictions. Quite what more could be done is unclear, as the regime was harsh.
[14:44] Tepic Harlequin: Younger prisoners might be made to pick oakum, which means unravelling old rope into short threads that would be used to caulk wooden ships. It was a hard, dirty and unpleasant job, the only saving grace being that it would probably be done in a large room with other prisoners, so you got to see other people.
[14:44] Stereo Nacht: Deliberately sending rats int?
[14:45] Garnet Psaltery: *shudder*
[14:45] Tepic Harlequin: Most prisoners were kept in single confinement. This was to let them have time to contemplate their crimes and to become penitent - which is why some prisons were called penitentiaries. The cells were built with thick, often double or triple walls to prevent communication by tapping or drilling holes and the windows were deep set so the prisoner could not see anyone else.
[14:45] Zsophia Innovia: if you brought a club could be food
[14:46] Tepic Harlequin: But they could still talk to one another? Well no, silence was the rule and it was a rule that was enforced very harshly. Prisoners were not permitted to speak unless spoken to by an official who would give them permission to reply. This was not only in their cells, but also in all other areas, including the exercise yard. Some prisons had long knotted ropes, with knots five yards apart, and during exercise the prisoners had to hold a knot and the rope had to be kept taut between them.
[14:46] Ceejay Writer: Club Sandwich?
[14:46] Bookworm Hienrichs: Wow.
[14:47] Steadman Kondor: such wicked torture
[14:47] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander): Better to be in a cloistered monastery.
[14:47] Darlingmonster Ember: ...ah such silence is a feature I had never heard before.
[14:47] Tepic Harlequin: as a side note, in British prisons, silence was the rule until the mid 1950s....
[14:47] Darlingmonster Ember: !!
[14:48] Tepic Harlequin: One thing that was taught in the prisons was reading. Any ideas why?
[14:48] Cpt. Clark Sideswipe (clarksideswipe): To read the bible? Just throwin ideas...
[14:48] Jimmy Branagh: So's they wouldn;t talk
[14:48] Stereo Nacht: Two possibilities: silence, and education, especially religious.
[14:48] Beryl Strifeclaw (gager): If you're reading you're not talking?
[14:48] Tepic Harlequin: well done Cpt. Clark!
[14:48] Avariel Falcon: Self improvement?
[14:48] Tepic Harlequin: It was so the prisoners could read the Bible and understand with Divine Guidance where they had gone wrong in life and how they should behave.
[14:49] Beryl Strifeclaw (gager): Or they can tell you're not crazy if you're able to read and not sing even during the beatins. =p
[14:49] Garnet Psaltery: Bet the Song of Solomon was well-thumbed
[14:49] Caesar Osterham: So they could write tell-all novels?
[14:49] Tepic Harlequin: It was a hard life, those who had long sentences often became institutionalised and were unable to cope on being released, often committing a crime to be sent back to those dreadful places.
[14:49] Stereo Nacht: Hence the mistrust of the educated ones nowadays? ;-)
[14:50] Cpt. Clark Sideswipe (clarksideswipe): Argh, irony, the very idea of reform results in even more mis-adjusted individuals.
[14:50] Tepic Harlequin: This still occurs.......
[14:50] Tepic Harlequin: So what about the younger people sent into the prison system, were they treated differently?
[14:50] Caesar Osterham: Welcome to the law of unitended consequences
[14:51] Tepic Harlequin: It really depended on your age and what you had done. If you were over 14 or had committed a very serious crime, you were treated as an adult in prison, with the same harsh treatment.
[14:51] Tepic Harlequin: The records do show that younger people were often sentenced to a few days to a few months imprisonment, with a certain number of days hard labour, possibly with the intention of administering a short, sharp shock. Considering the number of reoffenders, it is uncertain how well this worked.
[14:52] Tepic Harlequin: There was a route persistent or serious young criminals could go that was not available to their older counterparts, and that was the Reformatory system.
[14:52] Tepic Harlequin: Children would be sentenced to a term of imprisonment, then five or more years in a Reformatory, depending on their age.
[14:53] Tepic Harlequin: The Reformatories were created to teach young offenders a trade while removing them from the bad environment they were living in. They would also be given an education.
[14:54] Tepic Harlequin: They were usually in isolated rural areas and included farm land that the children had to work.
[14:54] Tepic Harlequin: Work was the order of the day, all the chores, maintenance, washing, cooking and cleaning would be done by the inmates, overseen by a small staff of adults. Punishment was harsh, often arbitrary, and although they were supposed to be run by the Trustees, they were usually run entirely by the Master.
[14:55] Stereo Nacht: So... DisTrustees?
[14:55] Garnet Psaltery: heh
[14:55] Tepic Harlequin: Children from about the age of nine would be sent to Reformatories, though younger ones may also have been sent to them - records concerning these institutions are notably sketchy.
[14:56] Zaros Xue: 'Lo all, sorry for being late. :)
[14:56] Garnet Psaltery waves to Xaros
[14:56] Avariel Falcon: Hello there Zaros
[14:56] Tepic Harlequin: Younger children were punished either by their parents, by local police, or could be taken into care by the Court. This would usually mean they would be sent to an orphanage or the Workhouse.
[14:56] Beryl Strifeclaw (gager): Late as usual.
[14:56] Lady Sumoku: The mark of contractors
[14:57] Lady Sumoku: (sketchy paperwork)
[14:57] Tepic Harlequin: In conclusion, we can see that punishments became less severe over the century, or at least you were less likely to get hanged. Punishments were more organised and regulated. Attempts were made to improve prisoners conditions, and attempts were made to reform prisoners.
[14:57] Steadman Kondor: charles dickens wasn't also in the workhouse was he?
[14:58] Tepic Harlequin: Charles Dickens spent time in Debtor's Prison with his family, as his fahter was sent there, he did not go to the Workhouse or Prison in his own right
[14:58] Steadman Kondor: how about 'fallen women'?
[14:58] Jimmy Branagh: 'ee wos a little Dickens ...
[14:58] Tepic Harlequin: He went out and was working to pay his family out of debt
[14:58] Steadman Kondor: they were not imprisoned were they?
[14:58] Garnet Psaltery: Those were extra
[14:58] Tepic Harlequin: I hope you have enjoyed this talk, and always remember, best mot to get caught, and if you are, hire the best lawyer you can afford, cus yer don't want to end up in the Tanty!
[14:59] Stereo Nacht: `*.¸.*´ APPLAUSE `*.¸.*´APPLAUSE `*.¸.*´
[14:59] Garnet Psaltery: Excellent talk, Tepic
[14:59] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander) applauds
[14:59] Ceejay Writer: I promise to TRY to be good!
[14:59] Tepic Harlequin: There is a free scaffold and stocks in the box by the stage, please help yourselves!
[14:59] Garnet Psaltery applauds
[14:59] Steadman Kondor: oh! hehe yes i enjoyed this talk. Applauds :)
[14:59] Jimmy Branagh applauds!
[14:59] Myrtil Igaly applauds applauds!
[14:59] Bookworm Hienrichs applauds.
[14:59] Avariel Falcon: ♫ ((( Yay! Applause! Yay! ))) ♪
[14:59] Garth Goode: Well done!
[14:59] Darlingmonster Ember applauds
[14:59] Nika Thought-werk (robotnika) claps!
[14:59] Lady Sumoku claps
[14:59] Avariel Falcon: ♫ ((( Yay! Applause! Yay! ))) ♪
[14:59] Jimmy Branagh: Good job Tepic!
[14:59] Avariel Falcon: ♫ ((( Yay! Applause! Yay! ))) ♪
[14:59] Tepic Harlequin: If there are any questions....?
[14:59] Darlingmonster Ember: Very good work, Tepic.
[14:59] Vic Mornington (victor1st.mornington): yay!
[14:59] Zsophia Innovia clapps
[14:59] Dee Wells (promiscute): Excellent, Tepic. Thank you :D
[14:59] Avariel Falcon: Wonderful lecture young Tepic!
[14:59] Steadman Kondor: Yes the fallen women, where they imprisoned too if caught?
[14:59] VI (violet.solano): very well done
[14:59] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander): For those who wish to stay over, perhaps Herr Tepic has time for questions.
[15:00] Garnet Psaltery: I'm afraid I must go elshewhere but that was most interesting
[15:00] Tepic Harlequin: Fallen women.. well, not much experience of them meself, but yes, they were imprisoned, often in the Asylums, which were worse than the prisons!
[15:00] Garnet Psaltery waves and heads back
[15:00] Doctor Avalon (avalonalpha): claps
[15:00] Steadman Kondor: :(
[15:00] Steadman Kondor: oh dear
[15:00] Stereo Nacht: /I worry I must go; typist is cold, and there is another DJ/live concert starting in an hour... Plus, typist has laundry to do...
[15:00] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander): Femininity is a dreadful disease, after all.
[15:01] Wildstar Beaumont: time to go to bed for me ... good night everybody !
[15:01] Darlingmonster Ember: !!!
[15:01] Tepic Harlequin: The Asylums are a whole new topic, i am afraid!
[15:01] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander) grins and waits for Zanta to smack him.
[15:01] Steadman Kondor: take care miss nacht
[15:01] Stereo Nacht: See some of you later, for the others, good evening!
[15:01] Bookworm Hienrichs smiles sardonically at the Baron.
[15:01] Jimmy Branagh: Yeh Oy gotta run too. Thanks again Tepic! Noight awl!
[15:01] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander): Gute Nacht, those leaving.
[15:01] Steadman Kondor: good evening all :)
[15:01] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander): Danke for your attendance.
[15:01] Myrtil Igaly: bedtime for me too, good talk Tepic!
[15:01] Ceejay Writer: I'll be off to cook black squid ink noodles with a carmellized corn/onion sauce, served with scallops and shrimp.
[15:01] Beryl Strifeclaw (gager) might have to think of an asylum talk
[15:01] Steadman Kondor: and a wonderful thank you to Master Tepic
[15:01] Ceejay Writer: You wish you were coming with me!
[15:01] Avariel Falcon: Sleepy time
[15:01] Avariel Falcon nods
[15:01] Beryl Strifeclaw (gager): If it hasn't been done
[15:01] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander) grins back at Fraulein Bookworm.
[15:01] Avariel Falcon: Thank you Tepic ^_^
[15:01] Zsophia Innovia: thank you for the talk I enjoyed it
[15:01] Avariel Falcon bows
[15:01] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander): Not recently if at all, Fraulein Beryl.
[15:01] Bookworm Hienrichs: Any other question for Tepic?
[15:02] Beryl Strifeclaw (gager): I'll start compiling notes.
[15:02] Tepic Harlequin: There were major differences in punishment across the world at the time
[15:02] Beryl Strifeclaw (gager): =3
[15:02] Zaros Xue: Notes would be good. xD
[15:02] Tepic Harlequin: which is why this only covered Britain!
[15:02] Zaros Xue: IRL is a pest. :P
[15:02] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander): We have a transcript journal at http://aethersalon.blogspot.com
[15:03] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander): Do not forget your gifts!
[15:03] Nika Thought-werk (robotnika) curtsies again and scampers off.
[15:03] Avariel Falcon: Thank you
[15:03] Avariel Falcon bows[15:03] Bookworm Hienrichs: Thank you all for coming, and be sure to join us next month!