Monday, March 16, 2015

Protocol! (Unedited transcript)

[14:04] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander): Fraulein Bookworm, if you might start with the general introduction.
[14:04] Bert (bert.nuubert): Greetings mr Mayor
[14:04] Bookworm Hienrichs nods.
[14:05] Bookworm Hienrichs: Welcome, everyone, to this month's Aether Salon! Today, Duchess Liz Wilner and Wizardess Oriella Charik will teach us about proper protocol when out and about in the Steamlands.
[14:05] Bookworm Hienrichs: Before we get started, a few housekeeping items:
[14:05] Jimmy Branagh looks at all the rich people and flexes his fingers
[14:05] Bookworm Hienrichs: 1) To ensure you can hear the speaker, stand or sit on the patterned carpet.
[14:05] Garnet Psaltery: Don't look at me, I'm skint
[14:05] Bookworm Hienrichs: 2) If you do not have a wearable chair and wish one, please contact myself or the Baron.
[14:05] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander) catches his eye and shakes his head.
[14:05] Jimmy Branagh grins
[14:05] Bookworm Hienrichs: 3) Please remove all lag-feeding whatevers you might be wearing. It is Sunday, after all.
[14:05] Bookworm Hienrichs smiles wryly.
[14:06] Bookworm Hienrichs: 4) A tip jar is out for our speaker. Do please show your appreciation!
[14:06] Bookworm Hienrichs: 5) Any tips to help support the establishment will also be welcome - just click on one of the support signs!
[14:06] Nika Thought-werk (robotnika) tries to remove her key and whimpers.
[14:06] Bookworm Hienrichs: 6) If you're not a member of the AEther Salon group, there are signs that will let you join up. You'll be most heartily welcome!
[14:06] Bookworm Hienrichs: 7) Edited and unedited transcripts of these proceedings will be posted at
[14:06] Bookworm Hienrichs: And now, please give your attention to Baron Klaus Wulfenbach as he introduces our speakers.
[14:06] Dr. Henry Jekyll (nyanka.jinx) clears his throat.
[14:06] Jimmy Branagh applauds
[14:07] Nika Thought-werk (robotnika) listens
[14:07] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander): Welcome, everyone. Those of you who might not travel often might not have met the Duchess Liz Wilmer of Trikassi, a Duchy in Winterfell, nor met her Wizardess in residence, Oriella Charik.
[14:08] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander): The Duchess is a mainstay of Winterfell society, and delights in creating events for the enjoyment of all.
[14:08] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander) puts an arm around his wife.
[14:08] Liz Wilner smiles
[14:08] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander): They both dance excellently.
[14:08] Zantabraxus (zantabraxus.aristocarnas): (apologies to any I ran over- I just rubberbanded around the room)
[14:08] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander) grins
[14:08] Garnet Psaltery: Ciao, Wildstar
[14:08] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander): Damen, you have the floor.
[14:08] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander) applauds
[14:08] Blackberry Harvey applauds
[14:08] Bookworm Hienrichs applauds.
[14:08] Jimmy Branagh applauds
[14:08] Liz Wilner: Thank you Baron :)
[14:08] Zantabraxus (zantabraxus.aristocarnas) applauds
[14:08] Tepic Harlequin: watcha Myrtil!
[14:08] Wildstar Beaumont: greetings everybody
[14:08] Nika Thought-werk (robotnika) claps happily.
[14:09] Darlingmonster Ember applauds
[14:09] Jimmy Branagh waves
[14:09] Liz Wilner: And thank you all for coming :)
[14:09] Myrtil Igaly: 'ello!
[14:09] Jimmy Branagh: Hoy Myrtl!
[14:09] Jimmy Branagh: Myrtil *
[14:09] Liz Wilner: Today, Lady Charik and I will be discussing Precedence and Protocol
[14:10] Liz Wilner: If everyone could take a set of notecards from the placard next to Lady Charik...that might help to follow along
[14:10] Dr. Henry Jekyll (nyanka.jinx) takes a notecard and quickly skims over it.
[14:10] Liz Wilner: Precedence is a formal way of determining a person’s position in Society. In times of change it can fall behind the reality of power, but it will always attempt to catch up.
[14:11] Liz Wilner: Protocol is the manner in which the various ranks behave amongst each other
[14:11] Oriella Charik: In this talk we deal specifically with Precedence in England unless otherwise stated. Other European countries have similar rankings, as does the realm of Fairyland.
[14:12] Oriella Charik: In a Notecard in our placard, please touch to obtain, we have a detailed list of Precedence from the Sovereign down to Gentlemen.
[14:13] Oriella Charik: Royalty comes first, of course!
[14:13] Jimmy Branagh: Oy dun see no urchins on there ...
[14:13] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander) chuckles
[14:13] Tepic Harlequin: that's cus we ain't got no position, cept at the bottom.....
[14:13] Jimmy Branagh: Oh
[14:13] Oriella Charik: Then follow certain persons by virtue of their offices, such as Archbishops
[14:14] Myrtil Igaly: maybe we're under "Masters in Lunacy"
[14:14] Dr. Henry Jekyll (nyanka.jinx): That's because precedence only refers to the Nobles, Jimmy. I don't see doctors on there either, and those are rather important.
[14:14] Jimmy Branagh: Hmmm ...
[14:14] Mosseveno Tenk reads the card and raises an eyebrow
[14:14] Oriella Charik: After them come Peers, who are members of the House of Lords
[14:14] Jimmy Branagh: Sounds loike a racket ta me ...
[14:14] Mosseveno Tenk: goodness.....
[14:14] Mosseveno Tenk nods to Jimmy
[14:15] Jimmy Branagh waves to Mr. Tenk
[14:15] Oriella Charik: The House of Lords being the Upper Chamber in Parliament
[14:16] Liz Wilner: For can get complicated
[14:16] Liz Wilner: The precedence of WOMEN is determined, before marriage, by the Rank and Dignity, but not by the Office, of their father. All the unmarried sisters in any family have the same degree, which is the degree that their eldest Brother holds (or would hold) amongst men. Thus of the sons of an earl, the eldest alone has an honorary title of nobility and is styled “My Lord” whilst all the Daughters of an Earl have a similar honorary Title and are styled “My Lady.”
[14:17] Dr. Henry Jekyll (nyanka.jinx) raises his hand.
[14:17] Liz Wilner: yes?
[14:17] Jedburgh Dagger (jedburgh30.dagger): The perils of the Patriarchy
[14:17] Garnet Psaltery: Perishing perils
[14:17] Dr. Henry Jekyll (nyanka.jinx): If only the eldest son is styled "My Lord," then what of the younger sons?
[14:18] Cody Lowey (dakota.tebaldi): Perilous perils of peril...
[14:18] Mosseveno Tenk scratches his beard
[14:18] Oriella Charik: Younger sons have no title by right
[14:18] Dr. Henry Jekyll (nyanka.jinx): Ah. Thank you.
[14:18] Garnet Psaltery: They're called Hey You
[14:18] Myrtil Igaly: Except if the eldest boy dies I guess
[14:18] Oriella Charik: Their fathers may well regard them as wastrels!
[14:18] Liz Wilner laughs
[14:18] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander) chuckles
[14:19] Cody Lowey (dakota.tebaldi): Well that's a lousy deal!
[14:19] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander): Younger sons get the military and the priesthood.
[14:19] Beryl Strifeclaw (gager): Must be a shame to be the youngest prince then
[14:19] Liz Wilner: the next son in line gets the title if the eldest dies
[14:19] Garnet Psaltery: So die or be virtuous
[14:19] Dr. Henry Jekyll (nyanka.jinx) barely suppresses a chuckle,
[14:19] Mosseveno Tenk: how complex. no wonder the empire fell.
[14:19] Liz Wilner: Marriages to commoners do not affect Precedence. Thus if the two elder daughters of a duke were to marry an Earl and a Baron respectively whilst the youngest daughter were to run away with the footman, she would nevertheless rank as the daughter of a Duke above her sisters ranking as wives of an Earl and a Baron.
[14:19] Garnet Psaltery: wb Vic
[14:19] Myrtil Igaly: Better to be a girl, you've got the title and no fear to be poisoned
[14:20] Mosseveno Tenk: but does the girl go up or down by marraige, or does she keep what she had?
[14:20] Liz Wilner: If a woman inherits a title, when she marries she retains that title regardless of the station of her husband. She does, however, have the luxury of adding a higher title should her husband be of higher rank than herself. Hence, a hereditary Duchess who marries a Prince may style herself as Princess, due to her husband’s rank, but she never loses Duchess should he die. In the opposite case, should a hereditary Duchess marry her footman, she still retains her rank as Duchess, but her husband is not accorded Duke.
[14:20] Beryl Strifeclaw (gager): Errr....don't count on that Myrtil
[14:21] Oriella Charik: In this respect we make so bold as to refer to our own Baron Wulfenbach, whose wife is a Baronin when she accompanies him whilst retaining her own higher rank if she chooses when she does not.
[14:21] Myrtil Igaly: Eh, that was quite well made!
[14:21] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander) smiles
[14:21] Mosseveno Tenk: she outranks him?
[14:21] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander): She is a Queen.
[14:21] Jedburgh Dagger (jedburgh30.dagger): She's the Queen of Skifander
[14:21] Mosseveno Tenk tugs on his beard
[14:21] Tepic Harlequin: cor....
[14:21] Liz Wilner: she does in her own country...she is a outranks us all :)
[14:21] Dr. Henry Jekyll (nyanka.jinx): Hm!
[14:21] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander): I married up.
[14:21] Darlingmonster Ember smiles
[14:22] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander) grins
[14:22] Liz Wilner: in her country, that is
[14:22] Oriella Charik: The phrase ‘in their own right’ can be used to make it clear that a woman holds an inherited title. This is the case for Countess Eldemar of Fairyland, whose husband has been accorded the courtesy title of Lord but is not a Count.
[14:22] Zantabraxus (zantabraxus.aristocarnas) smiles at Klaus
[14:22] Mosseveno Tenk: i wonder where the old archon of clockhaven would have fit in....
[14:23] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander): Wherever the crowbar fit.
[14:23] Tepic Harlequin: hehheeh
[14:23] Darlingmonster Ember: snerks
[14:23] Oriella Charik: We note that Gilbert and Sullivan’s opera ‘Iolanthe’ concludes with all Fairies being required to marry mortals or be executed. They choose to marry Peers (as any Lady would).
[14:23] Bookworm Hienrichs chuckles.
[14:23] Mosseveno Tenk: babbagers carry very big tools...
[14:23] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander) grins
[14:23] Zantabraxus (zantabraxus.aristocarnas) laughs
[14:23] Jimmy Branagh chuckles
[14:23] Tepic Harlequin: so... ladies like a good peer?
[14:23] Jedburgh Dagger (jedburgh30.dagger): The proletariat is armed
[14:23] Jimmy Branagh: Of course ladies lokie a good beer, Tepic!
[14:24] Oriella Charik: A Peer is a person who is entitled to a seat in the House of Lords. There are some exceptions to this – Irish Peers for example had their seats revoked when Ireland became a Republic. Under present British Law there are not enough seats allotted to hereditary Peers for them to all be seated, so they hold elections to decide who shall represent them.
[14:24] Darlingmonster Ember: Unless it is ogling, which is another law.
[14:24] Beryl Strifeclaw (gager): A perceived equal Tepic.
[14:24] Beryl Strifeclaw (gager): Guess not.
[14:24] Mosseveno Tenk: why can't they just buy seats like a reasonable society? all this inheriting business seems so complicated.
[14:24] Oriella Charik: Baronets are another exception: though hereditary they are not Peers.
[14:24] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander): Buying seats is for Commons.
[14:24] Tepic Harlequin: keeps the polititians out.....
[14:25] Oriella Charik: Some titles are hereditary. Whether they can be inherited by women or must pass to the next male in succession varies according to their Patents.
[14:25] Mosseveno Tenk: patents?
[14:25] Oriella Charik: Others are attached to the holder’s circumstances. The Prince of Wales is so because he is eldest son of the Sovereign, when he becomes King the title passes on to his son. The Sovereign has a number of ‘spare’ titles she can bestow on her immediate family as required, indeed she can devise titles if she chooses and ‘break the rules’ if she chooses
[14:26] Dr. Henry Jekyll (nyanka.jinx): I wonder if we're talking about precedence or inventions, sir.
[14:26] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander): A social invention, if you will.
[14:26] Dr. Henry Jekyll (nyanka.jinx): Makes sense.
[14:26] Tepic Harlequin: bit of fancy paper with the rules on it....
[14:26] Oriella Charik: (a patent of Creation is granted by the Sovereign for a new Title)
[14:27] Beryl Strifeclaw (gager): I think I witnessed that on New Years in Mondrago....magistrate and council making up titles while drunk
[14:27] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander) nosepinches
[14:27] Oriella Charik: For example when Diana Princess of Wales divorced from her husband she should have reverted to her previous status as the daughter of an Earl, but the Queen decreed that she should keep her title. When the Prince married again his wife was not made a Princess but took his secondary title and became the Duchess of Cornwall
[14:27] Dr. Henry Jekyll (nyanka.jinx): Thank you for clearing that up, your grace.
[14:28] Oriella Charik: Many senior titles have a secondary title of lower rank attached to them. Some have several – the Dukes of Norfolk have accumulated nine. The first of these is normally given as a courtesy title to the eldest son, in Norfolk’s case his heir is the Earl of Arundel.
[14:28] Tepic Harlequin: bit like collectin cigarette cards....
[14:28] Oriella Charik: I now turn to the Duchess to explain the social graces!
[14:29] Liz Wilner: conversation....
[14:29] Liz Wilner: In England Royalty are addressed socially as ‘Sir’ or ‘Ma’m’, but formally as ‘Your Majesty’ if such and ‘Your Royal Highness’ if not.

A Prince who is the ruler in his country is usually a “Serene Highness” to distinguish him from lesser Princes.

Dukes and Duchesses are addressed as ‘Duke’ and “Duchess” informally, ‘Your Grace’ formally for both.
[14:29] Liz Wilner: Other Peers are ‘Lord xxx’ informally, ‘My Lord’ or ‘Your Lordship’ formally. The actual title is not used in conversation unless confusion would result.

Eldest sons are normally addressed by father’s secondary title, younger sons and all daughters add their first names to distinguish them: “Lady Mary xxx”.
[14:30] Liz Wilner: ‘Honourable’ is a courtesy title used in writing, but not conversation
[14:30] Wildstar Beaumont: "Lady Mary" .. if there was such a thing as RL it would remind me of a TV show
[14:30] Liz Wilner: one always uses the titles in at least first addressing each other
[14:31] Tepic Harlequin whispers: eh Jimmy, we could get the Emperor ter give us titles, then we'd be nobs!
[14:31] Liz Wilner: certain formalities in addition to conversation would be bowing and curtseying
[14:31] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander) grins
[14:32] Myrtil Igaly: I'm already a Sir, Miss Maggie made me one
[14:32] Liz Wilner: A bow in England is a lowering of the head, not the body as in for example Japan. This head bow is not a “bobbing” of the head, but rather a dignified lowering of the head towards one’s chest. In Europe more elaborate bows may be used, as is often seen in movies.
[14:32] Jimmy Branagh shouts: Yeh, Oy loikes th' sound of "Yer Majesty"
[14:32] Liz Wilner: A curtsey is bending the knees---a slow lowering of one’s body/torso down by the knees and back up straight. It is an acknowledgement of respect. If a wife’s husband is present she is accorded such respect according to her husband’s status, not her own.
[14:32] Jimmy Branagh: ((oops))
[14:32] Tepic Harlequin looks confused....
[14:32] Liz Wilner: as Lady Charik will now demonstrate
[14:32] Tepic Harlequin whispers: Mirtil is a Sir?
[14:33] Liz Wilner: These are made to those of superior rank. A Princess does not curtsey to mere Dukes or any others below!
[14:33] Dr. Henry Jekyll (nyanka.jinx): .... Jimmy, please. Not in the middle of a speech.
[14:33] Jimmy Branagh whispers: Yeh it's awl part of the royalty thing ...
[14:33] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander): Herr Jimmy's volume is broken.
[14:33] Liz Wilner: we have added some links to some shops that carry these animations
[14:34] Darlingmonster Ember: !wonderful!
[14:34] Liz Wilner: and this brings us to the order and protocol at events
[14:34] Jimmy Branagh: Sorry, dint mean ta blurt.
[14:34] Liz Wilner: Arrivals and Departures (applies to all Royalty and Peerage worldwide)

The Order of Precedence is arranged primarily for the convenience of the most high ranking person attending. For instance at a large State gathering the Sovereign would arrive last, so as not to be sitting waiting for all others to assemble. The Sovereign’s entrance would include his/her family following in their order of precedence.
[14:34] Myrtil Igaly: yer just a bit overenthusiastic!
[14:35] Jimmy Branagh: Yeh thet's it!
[14:35] Liz Wilner: In the event of a smaller function, as in a dinner party, then the Sovereign arrives and leaves first, both in arriving at the place of the dinner as well going into the actual dining room
[14:35] Liz Wilner: In the event of a large Ball, as a for instance, the host or hostess accompanies the highest ranking personage into the Ball.
[14:36] Liz Wilner: From there the second ranking and others following in according to their ranking. The first dance is always begun by the host/hostess and the highest ranking, if appropriate. If not, then the highest ranking, not the host, may choose an appropriate partner and open the festivities
[14:36] Liz Wilner: When leaving, guests wait until the highest ranking leaves first (unless there is of course some VERY good reason that cannot wait).
[14:36] Oriella Charik: That concludes our talk, any questions we can at least attempt to answer!
[14:37] Zantabraxus (zantabraxus.aristocarnas) applauds
[14:37] Mosseveno Tenk: good heavens.
[14:37] Myrtil Igaly applauds
[14:37] Jimmy Branagh applauds!
[14:37] Garnet Psaltery applauds
[14:37] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander) applauds
[14:37] Dr. Henry Jekyll (nyanka.jinx) nods and thinks.
[14:37] Eilidh McCullough: ♩♪♫♬  APPAWS! ♩♪♫♬
[14:37] Cody Lowey (dakota.tebaldi) claps!
[14:37] Wildstar Beaumont applauds
[14:37] Mosseveno Tenk: thank goodness we only have one royal to keep track of
[14:37] Bookworm Hienrichs applauds.
[14:37] Bert (bert.nuubert) applauds
[14:37] Jimmy Branagh: Thet wos verry informative!
[14:37] Dr. Henry Jekyll (nyanka.jinx): And this royal is...?
[14:37] Mosseveno Tenk: speaking of which... anyone know whre he is? i don't want to find him floatin in the canal again.
[14:37] Darlingmonster Ember applauds
[14:37] Liz Wilner: The Princess Royal, Selena
[14:37] Garnet Psaltery: Emperor Crumb
[14:37] Jedburgh Dagger (jedburgh30.dagger): The Emperor
[14:38] Jimmy Branagh: Ain't seen 'im in awhoile
[14:38] Dr. Henry Jekyll (nyanka.jinx) looks concerned. "I've never heard of the man."
[14:38] Jedburgh Dagger (jedburgh30.dagger): He might still be hibernating
[14:38] Garnet Psaltery: Perhaps he's on holiday
[14:38] Myrtil Igaly: what does he do in canals?
[14:38] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander): Antiquity has some interesting variations on this - they have one or two ranks or levels within each title.
[14:38] Jedburgh Dagger (jedburgh30.dagger): You're new still Doc
[14:38] Beryl Strifeclaw (gager): Slip in them sometimes....
[14:38] Mosseveno Tenk: he falls in on his way home sometimes
[14:38] Dr. Henry Jekyll (nyanka.jinx): Sadly, yes....
[14:38] Myrtil Igaly: I've never curtsied in front of the Emperor
[14:38] Bookworm Hienrichs raises her hand with a question.
[14:39] Tepic Harlequin: ain't good fer him, he's alergic to water.....
[14:39] Oriella Charik: In the Steamlands, Serra Seneshal of Winterfell we think ranks as a PRincess
[14:39] Jimmy Branagh: 'ee's so pickled th' canal water won't 'urt 'im.
[14:39] Myrtil Igaly: hehehe Tepic
[14:39] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander): Duchess Liz, how did you come about to be the Duchess of Trikassi?
[14:39] Liz Wilner: yes, Miss Heinricks?
[14:39] Liz Wilner: ah...Baron...I inherited my title
[14:39] Oriella Charik: and the Guv.nah of Caledon as a representitive of a Sovereign outranks all in that country
[14:39] Liz Wilner: via my Father's line
[14:40] Dr. Henry Jekyll (nyanka.jinx): Well, that answers my question.
[14:40] Bookworm Hienrichs: Do patents differ at the same level? So, for instance, one Lordship could be passed to a daughter, while with another Lordship of the same level of rank would only pass to a male?
[14:40] Liz Wilner: my sisters are Duchesses as well...each given lands too, as I was given Trikassi
[14:40] Oriella Charik: I would not presume to attempt a ranking of the Clockwinder in his presence
[14:40] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander) chuckles
[14:41] Dr. Henry Jekyll (nyanka.jinx): Mayor is technically a rank, is it not?
[14:41] Oriella Charik: Patents are granted individually.
[14:41] Jimmy Branagh: Oy think 'ee's th' Boss. Period
[14:41] Tepic Harlequin: Mayor is a civil rank, not a social one, i think?
[14:41] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander): He was elected, so ja.
[14:42] Liz Wilner: Mayors are not members of the nobility they can be elected from a variety of circumstances
[14:42] Wildstar Beaumont: I guess New Babbage is a republic, since it holds elections
[14:42] Jedburgh Dagger (jedburgh30.dagger): Lord Mayor of London is in the precedent list
[14:42] Mosseveno Tenk: hmpf
[14:42] Tepic Harlequin: that's cus he's a Lord as well :-)
[14:42] Beryl Strifeclaw (gager): We have a Duke though?
[14:42] Beryl Strifeclaw (gager): Not locally a Duke though
[14:42] Jedburgh Dagger (jedburgh30.dagger): Caledonian immigrant
[14:42] Dr. Henry Jekyll (nyanka.jinx): Yes, that is true. Duke Edward Peasre, I think.
[14:42] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander) nods
[14:42] Oriella Charik: The Lord Mayor is certain;ly there, London has a second Mayor who actually does the work
[14:42] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander): Duke of Argylle.
[14:43] Jedburgh Dagger (jedburgh30.dagger): New Babbage has no Dukes
[14:43] Garnet Psaltery: For the same reason I don't use the title of Duchess
[14:43] Bookworm Hienrichs chuckles.
[14:43] Bookworm Hienrichs: One for show and one for work, eh?
[14:43] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander): He is also a Knight of the Court of the Rose, which is a Ducal court.
[14:44] Jedburgh Dagger (jedburgh30.dagger) points up to my previous statement
[14:44] Liz Wilner: in my homeland, I also rank as Princess...but as landowner of Trikassi, I am styled Duchess
[14:44] Oriella Charik: There is of course the quiestion of Wizards
[14:44] Mosseveno Tenk: I was hoping to hear more about steamland ranks.
[14:44] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander): Fraulein Wizardess, might you touch on Salic Law?
[14:44] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander): After the Clockwinder, of course.
[14:44] Dr. Henry Jekyll (nyanka.jinx): Yes, how do you adress a wizard...ess?
[14:44] Dr. Henry Jekyll (nyanka.jinx): Ahem, address
[14:45] Darlingmonster Ember: ...carefully
[14:45] Tepic Harlequin: depends on if yer know where they live.....
[14:45] Bert (bert.nuubert): I would think quite carefully
[14:45] Myrtil Igaly: hehee
[14:45] Jimmy Branagh chuckles
[14:45] Oriella Charik: I was assured they rank wherever they like, on account of being liable to turn people into things
[14:45] Wildstar Beaumont: Mayor Tenk .. you want to ignite drama ! *grins*
[14:45] Garnet Psaltery: Many steamlanders are rank for various reasons, such as not bathing, or living near the canals
[14:45] Cody Lowey (dakota.tebaldi) snickers
[14:45] Mosseveno Tenk: steamland rankings are a bit mystifying to us here in the city.
[14:45] Dr. Henry Jekyll (nyanka.jinx): Hey!
[14:45] Oriella Charik: Wizards are wizards, male or female
[14:46] Oriella Charik: and certainly not witches
[14:46] Myrtil Igaly: That's just titles, once you know someone is a Duke, you call them Duke, if they're a Baron, you say Baron, etc.
[14:46] Dr. Henry Jekyll (nyanka.jinx): Ah.
[14:46] Myrtil Igaly: that's my understanding!
[14:47] Beryl Strifeclaw (gager): That's pretty much what we do yes. If we even bother to think that much about it
[14:47] Beryl Strifeclaw (gager) giggles
[14:47] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander): I can explain Caledonian titles.
[14:47] Bert (bert.nuubert): My apologies Your grace, wizard Charik, i must take my leave.
[14:47] Garnet Psaltery: Cheerio, Bert
[14:47] Jimmy Branagh waves
[14:47] Darlingmonster Ember ears perk
[14:47] Liz Wilner: thank you for coming, Bert
[14:48] Dr. Henry Jekyll (nyanka.jinx): Goodbye, Bert.
[14:48] Mosseveno Tenk: which estates use titles?
[14:48] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander): If one owns a homestead or the equivalent thereof in a full sim, it is the tradition that they may style themselves as Duke or Duchess.
[14:48] Tepic Harlequin: i gets called all sorts of titles, but i ain't allowed ter say most of em in front of the lasses....
[14:48] Darlingmonster Ember: nods
[14:48] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander): Half a homestead is a Marquis or Marquise, although I've only seen one of those.
[14:48] Oriella Charik: Marquis is a rare title in England also
[14:48] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander): There is no designation for lesser amounts of land.
[14:49] Dr. Henry Jekyll (nyanka.jinx): Tepic, I don't think those are titles you're being called.
[14:49] Myrtil Igaly: it's more common in France
[14:49] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander): There are many European titles not incorporated into the English system, and it gets very complicated.
[14:49] Tepic Harlequin: oh? i'm sure one of em sounded like Sir...
[14:49] Eilidh McCullough raises a paw
[14:49] Jimmy Branagh: What if the name's Mark?
[14:49] Jimmy Branagh: Would it be Marquis Mark?
[14:50] Liz Wilner: and you had a question about Salic Law, yes?
[14:50] Cody Lowey (dakota.tebaldi): Aye if it's got a "q" in it, you'll hear it more in France than in England I reckon.
[14:50] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander): Antiquity is the only other land with any extensive use of titles.
[14:50] Myrtil Igaly: hehehe
[14:50] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander): Ja, if you might touch on that.
[14:50] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander): We have 10 more minutes.
[14:50] Oriella Charik: I think Salic law prevents women from ruling, as in France
[14:50] Myrtil Igaly: We're a bit retarded that's why
[14:51] Dr. Henry Jekyll (nyanka.jinx): Salic Law doesn't sound very fair, I think.
[14:51] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander): Especially not for well-trained daughters.
[14:51] Oriella Charik: In England we have had rulung Queens for some while
[14:52] Darlingmonster Ember: And in some countries, there is law regards men ruling.
[14:52] Dr. Henry Jekyll (nyanka.jinx): Yes, like Queen Victoria, for instance.
[14:52] Darlingmonster Ember: Or not
[14:52] Cody Lowey (dakota.tebaldi): And their 'usbands don't get to be called King, either!
[14:52] Liz Wilner: in Salic Law...a woman must marry the King to be Queen...but cannot rule in their own right
[14:53] Zantabraxus (zantabraxus.aristocarnas) snorts
[14:53] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander) grins
[14:53] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander): Skifander is a bit different.
[14:53] Darlingmonster Ember: Just so
[14:53] Myrtil Igaly: They'll rule for their son if he's too young
[14:54] Liz Wilner: Eili? did you have a question?
[14:54] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander): Sometimes they will rule anyway, behind a figurehead.
[14:54] Eilidh McCullough: Regarding Steamlands titles such as Caledonian Duchies, are they retained on loss of the land?
[14:54] Garnet Psaltery: Yes
[14:54] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander): I have always said 'Once a Duchess, always a Duchess'. It is a courtesy.
[14:54] Jedburgh Dagger (jedburgh30.dagger): They must by the number of ex-pats
[14:55] Garnet Psaltery: Besides, Des gave me mine just because he could
[14:55] Oriella Charik: The title would then be a courtesy one
[14:55] Eilidh McCullough: Thank you
[14:55] Garnet Psaltery: the land was extra
[14:55] Tepic Harlequin: Once a King, always a King, but once a Knight is enough fer anybody!
[14:55] Darlingmonster Ember: ha
[14:55] Garnet Psaltery: /melaughs
[14:55] Oriella Charik: A ruler ccan break the rules of course
[14:55] Vic Mornington (victor1st.mornington): LMAO
[14:55] Myrtil Igaly: Isn't Mister Emerson a double knight or something?
[14:55] Jimmy Branagh: We hav one of those now ...
[14:56] Cody Lowey (dakota.tebaldi): Tryin to 'member all them titles gotta be a royal pain for them as gotta do it, I say....
[14:56] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander): That is why there are heralds and secretaries.
[14:56] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander): In fact, I am surprised Fraulein Davies isn't here today.
[14:56] Zantabraxus (zantabraxus.aristocarnas): It would seem upon releasing the land in Caledon, one would also release the title accompanying the status of owning the land.
[14:56] Zantabraxus (zantabraxus.aristocarnas) waves a hand "But custom is custom."
[14:57] Garnet Psaltery: Well as I said, I got mine differently
[14:57] Darlingmonster Ember: nods, it is peculiar to the tradition
[14:57] Dr. Henry Jekyll (nyanka.jinx): It would be a good idea to keep the notecards in a safe place then.
[14:57] Darlingmonster Ember: It is also true that many of those who are Dukes/Duchesses in Caledon do not use the title.
[14:57] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander): Sometimes the land is re-named, so the titles become unique.
[14:57] Garnet Psaltery: There'll never be another Whitby *grins*
[14:57] Oriella Charik: Shall we conclude Baron, as our time is up?
[14:57] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander): Duchess Magdalena, for example - ja, Fraulein Ember?
[14:58] Darlingmonster Ember: Just so. Yes
[14:58] Zantabraxus (zantabraxus.aristocarnas) smiles at Oriella
[14:58] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander): Our time is indeed up. One more round of applause for the Damen, and I will pick up the tipjar in a moment.
[14:58] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander) applauds
[14:58] Darlingmonster Ember applauds
[14:58] Bookworm Hienrichs applauds.
[14:58] Oriella Charik mops her brow
[14:58] Myrtil Igaly applauds
[14:58] Cody Lowey (dakota.tebaldi) claps!
[14:58] Zantabraxus (zantabraxus.aristocarnas) applauds
[14:58] Jimmy Branagh applauds
[14:58] Dr. Henry Jekyll (nyanka.jinx) applauds respectfully.
[14:58] OldeSoul Eldemar (oldesoul): wonderful job ladies !!!
[14:58] Zantabraxus (zantabraxus.aristocarnas) beams at Liz
[14:58] Bookworm Hienrichs: Be sure to join us April 19th at 2PM SLT, when Jimmy Branagh regales us on "FREAKS: A Study of Carnival Tent Culture in the late 19th Century!"
[14:58] Garnet Psaltery: Very nice, ladies
[14:58] Darlingmonster Ember: Nicely done.
[14:58] Jimmy Branagh: Yes, wos excellent
[14:59] Liz Wilner: Thank you so much everyone for coming to our little talk :)
[14:59] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander): A special note - they stepped in when Brother Lapis was unable to present at last minute.
[14:59] Darlingmonster Ember: I hope he is well?
[14:59] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander): This was done on short notice, and I appreciate their time and efforts for the Salon.
[14:59] Zantabraxus (zantabraxus.aristocarnas): Indeed.
[14:59] Bookworm Hienrichs: Yes, thank you very much for your willingness!
[14:59] Garnet Psaltery: A good job well done on short notice
[14:59] Myrtil Igaly: Yes good job!
[14:59] Beryl Strifeclaw (gager): Thank you for the lecture
[14:59] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander): A conflict in schedules, I think.
[14:59] Mosseveno Tenk: He's probably still in a trance from chanting Pi all night at the cathedral. they do that.
[14:59] Tepic Harlequin: yer Grace, yer Wizardship.....
[14:59] Garnet Psaltery is looking forward to the freaks
[14:59] Dr. Henry Jekyll (nyanka.jinx): Well done for something on short notice, then. Excellent work, ladies.
[14:59] Vic Mornington (victor1st.mornington): :D
[14:59] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander): Good point, Herr Clockwinder.
[15:00] Liz Wilner respectfully nods to everyone and smiles
[15:00] Dr. Henry Jekyll (nyanka.jinx) is not sure about the freaks, but plans on attending the next salon anyway.
[15:00] Darlingmonster Ember: ta ta all
[15:00] Darlingmonster Ember curtsies
[15:00] Jimmy Branagh chuckles
[15:00] Garnet Psaltery: Cheerio Magz
[15:00] Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (klauswulfenbach.outlander): Gute Nacht, all.
[15:00] Oriella Charik: and I should thank the clockwinder for his most useful placard!
[15:00] Garnet Psaltery: Henry you could send your friend to represent you
[15:00] Liz Wilner: and please take the notecards from the baord next to Lady Charik if you haven't :)
[15:00] Bookworm Hienrichs: Thank you all for coming!

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